[RPG]: Shaintar: Immortal Legends, reviewed by Lee Reynoldson (5/5)

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13763.phtml

Lee Reynoldson's Summary:

Shaintar: Immortal Legends is an excellent High Fantasy setting for Savage Worlds.

Go to the full review for more information.

[tylermo]

Great review. I officially hopped on board the Savage Worlds train in 2004. I have all of the company's main plot point and setting books. Still don't have some third party products like Rune Punk, or the recently-reviewed Shaintar. Been meaning to buy them, and this review is putting me even closer. Being a full-blown SW player, I would have done it anyway. Hope others see this review, and realize that 4th edition isn't the only road for fantasy. Check out those fantasy toolkits, as well. Hell, just check out Savage Worlds. Even some of the WOTC guys were playing SW's 50 Fathoms in the last year, or so. Look at the Savage stat blocks, and look at the 4th D&D blocks. hehe They've gotten a lot shorter haven't they? :-) P.S. if you're looking for another reason to buy Shaintar and Savage products...people (from Pinnacle Entertainment and the third paty publishers) like Sean Patrick Fannon, Shane Hensley, Clint Black, Dave Blewer, Paul "Wiggy" Wade-Williams, etc. are online at peginc.com to answer questions. Great web support, for a great game (and related products). Nuff said! Excelsior! Wait a minute. That was some other guy's schtick. hehe

[ZenDog]

Originally Posted by tylermo

Great review.

Cheers, much appreciated.

Originally Posted by tylermo

I officially hopped on board the Savage Worlds train in 2004. I have all of the company's main plot point and setting books. Still don't have some third party products like Rune Punk, or the recently-reviewed Shaintar. Been meaning to buy them, and this review is putting me even closer. Being a full-blown SW player, I would have done it anyway. Hope others see this review, and realize that 4th edition isn't the only road for fantasy. Check out those fantasy toolkits, as well. Hell, just check out Savage Worlds. Even some of the WOTC guys were playing SW's 50 Fathoms in the last year, or so. Look at the Savage stat blocks, and look at the 4th D&D blocks. hehe They've gotten a lot shorter haven't they? :-) P.S. if you're looking for another reason to buy Shaintar and Savage products...people (from Pinnacle Entertainment and the third paty publishers) like Sean Patrick Fannon, Shane Hensley, Clint Black, Dave Blewer, Paul "Wiggy" Wade-Williams, etc. are online at peginc.com to answer questions. Great web support, for a great game (and related products). Nuff said! Excelsior! Wait a minute. That was some other guy's schtick. hehe

So, you weren't really clear about it, do you like Savage Worlds or not?

[MrWilli]

Shaintar doesn't sound like anything special, given your review. Yet another human-elf-dwarf high fantasy setting of the Dungeons & Dragons mold. The only difference is it uses Savage Worlds, but there are some pretty good D&D conversions out there on the web so people could save some money if they are looking for that kind of thing. Is there anything that sets it apart? Like you, I'm more into sword and sorcery these days, looking for something a little more exotic (and more imaginative) than Tolkien. It would take a lot of convincing for me to pick up Shaintar if it is another Middle Earth/Shannara/Forgotten Realms/Elder Scrolls clone.

[ZenDog]

Originally Posted by MrWilli

Shaintar doesn't sound like anything special, given your review. Yet another human-elf-dwarf high fantasy setting of the Dungeons & Dragons mold. The only difference is it uses Savage Worlds, but there are some pretty good D&D conversions out there on the web so people could save some money if they are looking for that kind of thing. Is there anything that sets it apart? Like you, I'm more into sword and sorcery these days, looking for something a little more exotic (and more imaginative) than Tolkien. It would take a lot of convincing for me to pick up Shaintar if it is another Middle Earth/Shannara/Forgotten Realms/Elder Scrolls clone.

Hi, Mr Willi in respect to the concerns you raise, although I tried, I don't think my review does Shaintar justice. It does have the demi-humans, but I wouldn't say it's a bog standard D&D type world. Like I tried to to explain, it's a lot more cohesive. The writiting ties the races into Shaintar so, to me at least, it doesn't feel like a stock fantasy world. It's also an epic setting, not really 'just another D&D world' so there aren't any dungeons or thousands of different monster races and ye olde magic shops in every town and city. It is a High Fantasy setting though so if you're just not into that chances are you won't want Shaintar.

[Trombone4Hire]

I really like what I've been hearing about this product, but I have to say I'm very disappointed that it was made with additional supplements in mind, unlike other Savage Settings. I know it's a massive world that has been in development for decades, but honestly there is no way I'm going to explore that much of the setting in my gaming, and I would rather have a decently long Plot Point sequence where all I need is SW and the Savage Setting book. I would enjoy reading all the books, but as Savage Worlds is designed to be played and not read, it seems like a mismatch.

[Sean Patrick Fannon]

Originally Posted by MrWilli

Shaintar doesn't sound like anything special, given your review... Is there anything that sets it apart?

Someone (screen name Manifold) asked a similar question on the Pinnacle forums -

OK, so sell me on Shaintar!

Lots of folks are now playing this. Why is it worth the money? Why is it better than buying the tool kits and rolling my own? What makes it special? What makes it better than D&D (besides Savage Worlds, of course)?

What's so great about Shaintar?

I gave the following response.

Have you ever wished to play in or run a fantasy setting that truly makes sense?

Have you ever wanted a world where all the "classic ideas" were presented in ways that fit in, and created a sense of internal consistency?

Have you ever wished to tell tales that were truly epic and cinematic? Where the snatching of loot from a kobold wasn't the point? Where saving a kingdom and standing against impossible odds for a great cause was?

Do you think the overall story arcs of "Babylon 5" would make for a truly incredible heroic fantasy campaign?

Have you ever listened to "fantasy metal" music and wondered "Why can't I actually play that?!?"

My friends and fellow enthusiasts here have done me great honor by their words, and even though they claim I am the greatest advocate, I do not believe I can best their efforts on my behalf.

In my experience, the Historical Timeline of a setting seems to do a rather incredible job of telling the story of a world.

If I have done my job right, you can read that, and peruse the rest of the Shaintar Journal, and you will know from there whether or not Shaintar: Immortal Legends is the land for your stories and your adventures.

One more thing, though.

With Shaintar, you also get the enthusiastic and constant support of the very person who made it all in the first place. You can ask the other Shaintar fans whether that's a good or a bad thing, but so far I think they have been pleased with the experience...

If that doesn't do it for you, then Shaintar probably isn't the kind of setting you will enjoy, no matter how well I might have done my job. It is meant to be a great epic heroic fantasy setting. It can't be all things to all people, though, and I am the first to admit that.

I will say that you can run a perfectly "sword & sorcery"-esque game in the setting, especially if you set your adventures in the Malakar Dominion, the Kal-a-Nar Empire, or the Lands of the Desert Princes...

[Sean Patrick Fannon]

Originally Posted by Trombone4Hire

I really like what I've been hearing about this product, but I have to say I'm very disappointed that it was made with additional supplements in mind, unlike other Savage Settings. I know it's a massive world that has been in development for decades, but honestly there is no way I'm going to explore that much of the setting in my gaming, and I would rather have a decently long Plot Point sequence where all I need is SW and the Savage Setting book. I would enjoy reading all the books, but as Savage Worlds is designed to be played and not read, it seems like a mismatch.

It may be that you are slightly misled, sir. While the story begun in Shaintar: Immortal Legends is slated to continue in future books, it very much is a complete product. With the core Savage Worlds rules and this one book, you have everything you need to run many, many adventures and campaigns in the Shaintar setting.

"The Raven's Quest" is a complete story, start to finish, with a definitive conclusion. It's just that, like all great fantasy and heroic stories, it has the promise of more story to tell.

Add to the book all of the free material already posted, with more to come, and you get a great deal of complete bang-for-the-buck with no need for additional purchases.

And I've already promised that, should I include any additional character-building stuff (such as new Edges or Powers or Gear) in future products, those things will be posted for free on the Talisman site, as well.

So you see, you will never be asked to spend any more money than you care to, and you will get a complete experience for the dollars you do spend.

I sincerely hope this allays any concerns you have and will encourage you to consider Shaintar more closely.

[ZenDog]

Originally Posted by Trombone4Hire

I have to say I'm very disappointed that it was made with additional supplements in mind.

I was going to get around to answering this, but Sean beat me to the punch.

[Rich Stokes]

I bought it when it came out and on the whole I'm very happy with it.

I think it's an interesting setting with plenty of scope to run a variety of games. Savage Worlds is a system I like a lot, and I'd always felt that it was lacking good "open" settings. Shaintar provides one, and I'm loving it.

The design of the book is fantastic. I'm not usually a fan of book layouts which have coloured (not plain white) page backgrounds, but this looks great. There is now a print friendly version, which probably looks better when printed, but I printed mine before that was available from the main file and it looks pretty great to me.

My only real complaint is that the PDF is locked and cannot be copied and pasted from. This is easy to remove with free tools, so not a fatal flaw, but locking the PDF seems stupid. Apparently the publisher feels this will somehow reduce piracy, although I fail to see how.

Short version: If you like Savage Worlds and think the idea of a "proper", open and fully realised fantasy setting is a good one, you're looking in the right place if you're looking at Shaintar!