Re: [RPG]: Innocents, reviewed by C.W.Richeson (5/4)
For the sake of accuracy:
The <B>Innocents</b> book doesn't reprint, though it does restate. A lot of the systems are the same, yes. The ones that needed to be changed were. The combat system, in particular, has several added features to make it more in line with an <B>Innocents</b> game.
There are, indeed, mechanics to represent child/adult contests. Check p. 192 of your copy of <B>Innocents</b>.
Re: [RPG]: Innocents, reviewed by C.W.Richeson (5/4)
Thanks for the clarifications, Matt!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHat_Matt
There are, indeed, mechanics to represent child/adult contests. Check p. 192 of your copy of <B>Innocents</b>.
There are certainly rules modifications for adults vs. children in combat. For non-combat comparative roles, however, I'm not sure I see what you're talking about. "There is no easy conversion from child to adult" says the book, and goes on describe feeling things out based on attribute rating. It even states that an adult with the same rating as a child should always win, since that's the adult average. This is less a matter of system mechanics and more of a matter of raw Storyteller adjudication based on the Attributes and Skills involved.
If I'm missing something please let me know. I'd rather the review be accurate and lose a little bit of face from missing an obvious detail than not!
Re: [RPG]: Innocents, reviewed by C.W.Richeson (5/4)
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.Richeson
Thanks for the clarifications, Matt!
There are certainly rules modifications for adults vs. children in combat. For non-combat comparative roles, however, I'm not sure I see what you're talking about. "There is no easy conversion from child to adult" says the book, and goes on describe feeling things out based on attribute rating. It even states that an adult with the same rating as a child should always win, since that's the adult average. This is less a matter of system mechanics and more of a matter of raw Storyteller adjudication based on the Attributes and Skills involved.
If I'm missing something please let me know. I'd rather the review be accurate and lose a little bit of face from missing an obvious detail than not!
The nature of the Storytelling system and, more importantly, the range of ages covered in <B>Innocents</b> means that, as the book says, there's no easy conversion. Contested rolls being children and adults use the same system as any other contested rolls, except that adults get 8-again. The ST does indeed have to use some common sense. But beyond that, yes, it comes down to judgment calls from the ST. I decided that was better than redesigning the WoD system (which I'm pretty sure WW wouldn't have let me do, even if I was inclined to do it, which I'm not) or adding another several pages of rules to make the rules of adults vs. kids extra crunchy.
Re: [RPG]: Innocents, reviewed by C.W.Richeson (5/4)
This whole book is bumpkiss and a perfect example of how White Wolf has always over-promised and under-delivered.
A role playing game about playing little children in the World of Darkness.
My first thought was that they had ripped off, Little Fears, a fabulous game that does exactly what it promises - lets you play little children in a world where the monsters are real and mom and dad can't help.
Then I laughed after reading through the book. My first thought after reading it was, "Typical White Wolf."
My reasons for lambasting the game? First, they are making a game for you - but they don't actually make a game! They tell you to use their regular old system and have adults, "always win" when in conflict with a child. That's not a system that's a napkin with scribbles taped to their system.
A system for playing childhood horror should have stats for how close a kid is to wetting the bed, how imaginative they are, and how much willpower they can exert over their own imagination, and how much or little control they have over their own lives (some kids can run free while others HAVE to go to Violin Practice ForEVER). I didn't even see an inkling of that in this book.
Sure there was great fluff, production values, and layout - but what is that if you're not even given the rules to run a great game that clinches the spirit of childhood horror? It'd be like having a beautiful custom design Ferrari and no engine inside of it. Or an in genre example - Being given keys to the Adams Family House, only to walk inside and see that it was nothing more than a set facade.
As for my typical complaint against White Wolf? Where is the Horror Stat in the game where you role-play Vampiric Horror? There was a Rage stat, at least, in Werewolf, but seriously. Vampire told everyone that it was a game about dark intrigue, vampire court and culture, and all the regular vampire stuff, and what rules do you get? How to shoot, dodge, punch, and powers that let you shoot faster, not be seen so you don't have to dodge, and punch hard enough to crush someone's skull. Yes, there were a few minor powers that dealt with mind-control, etc., but where was the creepy stat, or all the other rules that should have gone with being a vampire?
They promise to make games about these great ideas, but then fail to actually incorporate those ideas into their rule system - in any meaningful way. What would Monopoly be if all you got were rules on how to shoot at the other game pieces and how to buy property - but nothing involving getting the sets, buying houses (or hotels), and certainly not any rules about going broke. It wouldn't be a game about monopolies, or even the game we all know. It'd be a shoot-em up game set on a funky map of Atlantic City. It may claim the Title of Monopoly, but it wouldn't deserve it.
Re: [RPG]: Innocents, reviewed by C.W.Richeson (5/4)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHat_Matt
The nature of the Storytelling system and, more importantly, the range of ages covered in <B>Innocents</b> means that, as the book says, there's no easy conversion. Contested rolls being children and adults use the same system as any other contested rolls, except that adults get 8-again. The ST does indeed have to use some common sense. But beyond that, yes, it comes down to judgment calls from the ST. I decided that was better than redesigning the WoD system (which I'm pretty sure WW wouldn't have let me do, even if I was inclined to do it, which I'm not) or adding another several pages of rules to make the rules of adults vs. kids extra crunchy.
Vampire has extra rules (above and beyond the basic WoD rules), so does Werewolf, Mage, etc..
You could have given the children innocence, courage, imagination, and a whole host of other extra stats and abilities to make them fun to play while leaving them with crappy little 1 and 2 dots of strength - which is more realistic in the Hitchcock Fridge test sense.
Judgement calls from STs are not rules - that's, at best a House Rule, and it's BS.
Next time you make a game, include rules that make that idea real.
If you're making a game about Revenge, have a revenge stat/rule. If you're making a game about Pirates have a Grog/Rum stat! Build the game around the idea, don't build the idea around the game. Or if you're stuck with WW rules, add enough rules (they've done that since the beginning) to make the idea come alive to players, not just another crappy re-hash.
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