[4E] - Just got the Monster Manual. Where have all the "basic" monsters gone?
Howdy all -
Like the title says, I just snagged the monster manual for 4E and I was looking to run my group through some sample encounters to try things out - I was looking for the listing for typical creature stats, but all I see are these fancy kit builds!! Having options for all these things is nice, but I am just looking for normal monsters: I just want plain ol' "Gnoll". Not gnoll claw fighter, marauder, etc. Just plain gnoll. do such listing exist? Am I missing something? Do I need to build basic monsters from stratch?
Sorry for all the questions, but I got a group of players coming tonight and I just want the basics...
Re: [4E] - Just got the Monster Manual. Where have all the "basic" monsters gone?
As far as I can tell, they took the monster - say, Gnoll - and created a variant that fit each role (controller, skirmisher, brute, etc) or as many roles as they could think of - and that now is the Gnoll monster list. There isn't a plain Gnoll anymore, because the standard Gnoll that used a bow or javelin is now the Gnoll Skirmisher, and the one that cast magic is the Gnoll...um...Warpriest, or whatever it's called.
Basically, which monster build you pick depends on what you want it to do, and each one will favor whatever stat mix and powers lend itself to its role.
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Re: [4E] - Just got the Monster Manual. Where have all the "basic" monsters gone?
No, they don't exist. If you want to build one as an actual character (the way a player would do) look at the back of the book for ability modifiers, but that's really not how the mechanics of the game expect you to do things.
Why do you want a "basic" monster? (I'll note that none of the core races have a "basic" version--Human Rabble is the closest you can get.)
EDIT: Just saw something in your post. They're not really "fancy kit builds", like all those gnoll variants are standard gnolls with Warpriest levels or whatever. Each one is a monster in its own right.
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Re: [4E] - Just got the Monster Manual. Where have all the "basic" monsters gone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aztecman
I was looking for simple monsters. I didn't realize that they always needed to be that specifc type (controller, brute, etc).
Are there rules for creating minions for these types of creatures? That would work the same I suppose (actually I don't really know)
A lot of them (including most of the "classic" humanoids) do have minions - check the HP. They might have a fancy name like "Zombie Rotter" or "Hobgoblin Grunt", but they're minions.
Re: [4E] - Just got the Monster Manual. Where have all the "basic" monsters gone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyssius
Why do you want a "basic" monster? (I'll note that none of the core races have a "basic" version--Human Rabble is the closest you can get.)
EDIT: Just saw something in your post. They're not really "fancy kit builds", like all those gnoll variants are standard gnolls with Warpriest levels or whatever. Each one is a monster in its own right.
Sorry if my terminology was not correct. To me, they are fancy kit builds. I just wanted a plain ol' simple Gnoll. I can see that that isn't availlable.
Also for the sample encounters, I can scale these down right? I don't need to have the party fight all kinds of beasts, just a 2 or 3 creatures tops. Not to sound like a novice, but there's an encounter builder someplace in here right?
Re: [4E] - Just got the Monster Manual. Where have all the "basic" monsters gone?
Encounter builder is in the DMG. If you haven't read that yet, then it may explain why you're confused there's so many types of the same monster.
Kits isn't really an appropriate term for the monster variants. The monsters variations comes about because it denotes what tactics the monster use in combat and how they're good at that role.
Skirmishers like to hit and run.
Lurkers like to ambush.
Brutes and soldiers like to stand toe-to-toe with the PCs.
Artillery does range attacks.
Controllers are good at shaping the battlefield.
Minions are mooks.
Last edited by nightwyrm; 08-26-2008 at 12:51 PM..
Re: [4E] - Just got the Monster Manual. Where have all the "basic" monsters gone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aztecman
Sorry if my terminology was not correct. To me, they are fancy kit builds. I just wanted a plain ol' simple Gnoll. I can see that that isn't availlable.
Also for the sample encounters, I can scale these down right? I don't need to have the party fight all kinds of beasts, just a 2 or 3 creatures tops. Not to sound like a novice, but there's an encounter builder someplace in here right?
Thanks
Aztecman
The encounter creation guidelines are in the Dungeon Master's Guide, along with guidelines on scaling down the monsters. IIRC - and you should check this if you have access to the DMG - you can scale down a monster pretty easily by scaling down their defenses, attacks, and damage by 1 point per level, and adjusting their HP. However, this really only works if you're going a few levels down (or up), and to get it mathematically right, you'd need the DMG.
As for the plain-old-simple Gnoll, yeah, they don't exist. The way I look at it is, when I would make encounters (in any game), I might pit the heroes against a bunch of, say, Security Guards. All the guards would be largely the same, but I might give a few of them rifles, and a few of them pistols, and one guy would have grenades, and so forth. In the new edition of D&D, they've made each of those different loadouts a different creature within the category "Security Guard." They customize the creature a bit to favor its role, and off you go.
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Re: [4E] - Just got the Monster Manual. Where have all the "basic" monsters gone?
There is usually one version of the monster that just has a basic melee attack, and maybe one nifty power. They are ususally a Brute (lots of HPs) or soldier(work better in groups).
The encounter builder is in the DMG. I highly recomend reading the whole chapter-they have some good advice in there.
The sample encounters are a little weird (2 zombies, a hobgoblin, and some ninjas minions!), but the reason of having all of these "fancy kit builds" is to have some variety within one racial encounter. Say you need some Gnolls. You would pick a Gnoll Chief, a ranged guy or two, and fill out the rest with minions, soldiers, and brutes. There is lot of advice in the DMG along these lines. It also gives rules for leveling up and downscaling monsters (both of which are dead simple),a dn for making normal monsters Elites and Solos.
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