[Books] Looking for Urban Fantasy with male protagonists.

[Lord Shark]

The Last Hot Time by the late lamented John M. Ford might be what you're looking for.

[Sundancer]

Originally Posted by rrr

Out of curiosity, what reviews or which elements have put you off?

It's always hard for me to pinpoint what exactly puts me off something. One small example from the wiki page for the first novel (might be a small spoiler) would be :

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The next day he illegally uses his powers for good (by changing a person's morality, a spell called "remoralization") and clashes with a Dark Other from the Day Watch, Alisa Donnikova. They agree that Alisa can use her power to do a minor evil act as an exchange for her silence about this matter.

First the remoralization thingie...I have no idea how hard this is in the context of the book, but it seems kind of akward/weird to me that it would be possible at all to snap your finger and instant-brainwash somebody. And that this would be considered "using his powers for good".

And then this "hey, if you keep quiet I'll let you (whatever-that-minor-evil-act-is) someone/something. That seems kind of callous. I know there is a treaty in place, but still...I find that strange.

Now, I'm well aware that those (and more not mentioned here) are minor things, and that the books have gotten rave reviews on amazon, but it's enough to make me consider other books first.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Lord Shark

The Last Hot Time by the late lamented John M. Ford might be what you're looking for.

Seconded.

[drnuncheon]

Originally Posted by Sundancer

Scott Lynch: I am aware of The Lies of Locke Lamorra, but I'm still debating if it's worth reading or not.

There is no debate. Go read it. Then you can come back and check out the rest of this thread.

Since you've got city-based fantasy in there I might as well recommend Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar books featuring Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser.

And since you've got Simon Green on there you should try his Haven series - I think the collections are entitled Guards of Haven and Swords of Haven. There's a few standalones that occur in the same universe, too, but they are less urban.

The anthologies of the Thieves' World series frequently centered around the city of Sanctuary.

For more modern stuff, try China Meiville's King Rat.

[tashkal]

Originally Posted by Sundancer

Also I'd strongly prefer books written in the current century, or from the late 90s, so that disqualifies Dracula, which isn't even from the last century....

I know this is a little out of your range (set in the 1920s) but there are also Tee Morris' Billibub Baddings books, The Case of the Singing Sword and The Case of the Pitcher's Pendant, and although the name sounds that way, these aren't juveniles. It's about a dwarf from a fantasy setting who ends up trapped in 1920s Chicago and learns to make his way as a private detective, among other things. The magic isn't overt, really, but both the current ones involve magical artifacts that got pulled with him from his world.

The first one is out there as a free audio podcast, if that appeals.

Most of the other good ones I know of have been mentioned, after all. And even if it's not your cup of tea, others looking might find it appealing.

[bv728]

Originally Posted by Sundancer

First the remoralization thingie...I have no idea how hard this is in the context of the book, but it seems kind of akward/weird to me that it would be possible at all to snap your finger and instant-brainwash somebody. And that this would be considered "using his powers for good".

Remoralization isn't quite mind control, but basically it inclines someone to act in their best nature. It's pretty easy magically but easily detected and causes various treaty issues - a seriously remoralized person will be obviously changed, and the treaty means that every time you remoralize someone without existing permission, then the other side gets the right to do horrible things to someone, AND they might get the right to kill you in the bargain.

And then this "hey, if you keep quiet I'll let you (whatever-that-minor-evil-act-is) someone/something. That seems kind of callous. I know there is a treaty in place, but still...I find that strange.

Now, I'm well aware that those (and more not mentioned here) are minor things, and that the books have gotten rave reviews on amazon, but it's enough to make me consider other books first.

The books have a strong leaning that there is no absolute good or evil in humanity - only power, wisdom, foolishness, desire, and love. The Watches don't represent some timeless immortal wisdom - they're human, government bureaus, a day job for magicians that keeps things in line. So they have a treaty that keeps the peace, and the squabbles stay in line.

The books are very dry, world weary takes on supernatural conflicts.

[starblade]

Is there a reason you don't consider Repairman Jack Urban Fantasy? I find that that it only matter of age as to how urban fantasy is listed as fantasy or horror. the Anita Blake and Repairman Jack series are listed in horror where as newer similar works since urban fantasy has become popular are listed as fantasy.

Anyways onto recommendations with male protagonist are:
Ukiah Oregon series by Wen Spenser would be considered urban scifi and is really good.
The Half- Vampire Series by William Mark Simmons there are sample chapters on the Baen website.
The Dragons of the Cuyahoga by S. Andrew Swann
The Art of Arrow Cutting by Stephen Dedman

[3lobed]

Originally Posted by starblade

The Art of Arrow Cutting by Stephen Dedman

Seconded. I read this quite recently and it's pretty good. There's a sequel called Shadows Bite which I'm halfway through at the moment and is also good, but I think reading them in order will get you the best effect.

Also, The Quorum by Kim Newman, and Hawksmoor by Peter Ackroyd. The former is a great read for geeks because of all a whole lot of little inside references; the latter takes a bit of concentration to get into but repays it handsomely.

[Sundancer]

Originally Posted by HDimagination

...Fourlands books by Steph Swainston...

Having recently finished the second book, I'll gladly second the recommendation, but the urban parts are rather small. Wikipedia puts Swainston into the New Weird genre.
(Who comes up with those genre names ?)

Originally Posted by Lord Shark

The Last Hot Time by the late lamented John M. Ford might be what you're looking for.

This sounds similar to The Dragons of the Cuyahoga mentioned below, but has gotten more positive reviews.
(Now, I'm well aware that many of those reviews and ratings aren't worth the bits used to store them but since I can't read everything....)

Originally Posted by drnuncheon

There is no debate. Go read it. Then you can come back and check out the rest of this thread.

I on the other hand think that everyone should worship at the altar of Steven Erikson and those who don't should be whipped to death with...something you can whip someone to death with.
(translation: of course there is debate)

Since you've got city-based fantasy in there I might as well recommend Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar books featuring Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser.

Many (most?) of the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser stories don't take place in Lankhmar itself, so I didn't mention them. (Also, it took me three times as long to finish the last two books as it took me to read the first five...)

And since you've got Simon Green on there you should try his Haven series - I think the collections are entitled Guards of Haven and Swords of Haven. There's a few standalones that occur in the same universe, too, but they are less urban.

I meant to include them in my original list, but yes, enjoyable reads. Bit more down to earth than many of Green's other books, which might make them more attractive for some people.

The anthologies of the Thieves' World series frequently centered around the city of Sanctuary.

I'm usually not keen on shared world works. Can you say something about the quality of writing, is it somewhat stable ?

For more modern stuff, try China Meiville's King Rat.

As I said, I didn't make it through Perdido Street Station twice, is King Rat significantly different in pacing ?

Originally Posted by tashkal

...Tee Morris' Billibub Baddings books...

Are the dwarf and the artifacts the only magical elements in the setting ? Is the fact that he's a dwarf relevant or is it just an a bit more exotic fish-out-of-water scenario ?

Originally Posted by starblade

Is there a reason you don't consider Repairman Jack Urban Fantasy? I find that that it only matter of age as to how urban fantasy is listed as fantasy or horror. the Anita Blake and Repairman Jack series are listed in horror where as newer similar works since urban fantasy has become popular are listed as fantasy.

As I said earlier, the distinction between (Urban) Fantasy and Horror is somewhat arbitrary. For me it's often a question of the degree to which the fantastic is integrated into the setting and one of atmosphere.
I'd say in Urban Fantasy characters interact with the fantastic/supernatural while in Horror they (barely)survive it.
Also, in Urban Fantasy, communities of supernatural elements seem to be the norm. while the single threats tend to be more common in Horror.

Ukiah Oregon series by Wen Spenser would be considered urban scifi and is really good.

The first three Ukiah books were entertaining and I'd like to read more books in that vein. I didn't like that Spencer introduced another protagonist in the fourth book, that kind of broke the structure of the series for me.

The Half- Vampire Series by William Mark Simmons there are sample chapters on the Baen website.

Again, I didn't make it through the fourth book, but one to three were pulpy fun.

The Dragons of the Cuyahoga by S. Andrew Swann
The Art of Arrow Cutting by Stephen Dedman

The Art of Arrow Cutting sounds like fun. I will see if I can find it somewhere.
I'm not so sure about The Dragons of the Cuyahoga though.
One Amazon reviewer accuses him of not doing his research, can you comment on that ?
("The author clearly didn't actually do ANY research into firearms, computers or electronics...")

Originally Posted by 3lobed

The Quorum by Kim Newman

From amazon: "...supernatural elements play second fiddle to social satire..."
Reading the descriptin, I'd put this more into the Horror category.

Hawksmoor by Peter Ackroyd.

Again, from amazon: "the novel lacks a focus that would make a point behind the wealth of detail. As it is, tantalizing symmetries, provocative discussions of architecture, debates on ancient and modern lead nowhere and frustrate the reader."

[rrr]

Originally Posted by Sundancer

It's always hard for me to pinpoint what exactly puts me off something. One small example from the wiki page for the first novel (might be a small spoiler) would be :

First the remoralization thingie...I have no idea how hard this is in the context of the book, but it seems kind of akward/weird to me that it would be possible at all to snap your finger and instant-brainwash somebody. And that this would be considered "using his powers for good".

And then this "hey, if you keep quiet I'll let you (whatever-that-minor-evil-act-is) someone/something. That seems kind of callous. I know there is a treaty in place, but still...I find that strange.

Now, I'm well aware that those (and more not mentioned here) are minor things, and that the books have gotten rave reviews on amazon, but it's enough to make me consider other books first.

Interesting. Yep, the Nightwatch themselves and the treaty is pretty callous. I totally get being put off something by vague indefinable details, as I say, it was mostly just curiosity as to what... I love the books, and one of the things I like about them is the definite moral ambiguity of the Nightwatch's treaty (which is something which is often dealt with in the books) Despite the whole division into Light and Dark, really the whole lot of them are shades of grey...


EDIT: Posted without reading this:

Originally Posted by bv728

The books have a strong leaning that there is no absolute good or evil in humanity - only power, wisdom, foolishness, desire, and love. The Watches don't represent some timeless immortal wisdom - they're human, government bureaus, a day job for magicians that keeps things in line. So they have a treaty that keeps the peace, and the squabbles stay in line.

The books are very dry, world weary takes on supernatural conflicts.

And I would say this is an excellent description of the situation in the books, and a large part of why I love them