[RPG]: Wrath of the River King, reviewed by Ben_McFarland (4/5)

[RPGnet Reviews]

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14107.phtml

Ben McFarland's Summary:

The 4E adventure you've been waiting for! A healthy balance of combat, skill challenges, and roleplaying that dives into the depths of the Feywild.

Go to the full review for more information.

[capnzapp]

Apparently, we'll be waiting a while.

If there's one piece of information missing from this review, it's the module is not available for purchase!

I tried to find out more from this thread, but it was simply too confusing:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general...en-design.html

Then I googled. This page claims the module is available:
http://wolfgangbaur.com/opendesign/river_king.aspx

...from this store (the following link is what's hiding behind the marked link in the following screenie):
http://www.koboldquarterly.com/KQStore/



But it isn't. At least, I can't find it.

Wolfgang Baur's modules are part of something called "open designs" which isn't exactly what I'd call them. Turns out they're only available to patrons who pay money before they're done. Not the general public.

To me, this is a disaster I'm going to keep well away from.

As for the "review", I would have appreciated something along the lines of "here's a review of an adventure I - and only I - will ever get hold of, so there's no point in reading it really, except as an advertisement for future WBOD projects"

[DDogwood]

Agreed, this review made me interested in finding out more about this adventure, but since the module isn't available for purchase, it simply makes me mistrust the reviewer.

[DBlizzard]

It actually is available, in a sense.

Patrons of the upcoming Open Design project do have the opportunity to purchase this adventure. In fact, as I understand it, if you invest in the 4E version and the 3.5 version ends up being the one greenlit (because of more contributions to the 3E version), then you get a refund of the amount towards the upcoming project and get to keep your purchase of River King.

[Beginning of the End]

I'm not a big fan of the Open Design methodology. The idea of funding the development of products through pre-sponsorship or a ransom system makes perfect sense to me. But the "exclusive, limited time offer" approach of the products leaves me cold.

I did participate in one of these. The final quality of the product was significantly underwhelming for the price. The content was great, but it was significantly over-priced.

The theory seems to be that you're paying extra in order to participate in the creation process, allowing you to tweak the product to your personal tastes. But (a) it's not like you're actually dictating anything, so you'll probably still end up needing to customize the product; (b) the actual amount of influence ANY of the sponsors has appears to be incredibly minor; and (c) even if the sponsors did have meaningful input, do you really want a product created by committee?

If you like the idea of paying premium in order to get access to beta testing, though, this might be worthwhile.

With all that being said, these modules (except for the very first one) are available. However, you have to be a patron of the current project: http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/faq

[capnzapp]

Originally Posted by Beginning of the End

With all that being said, these modules (except for the very first one) are available. However, you have to be a patron of the current project: http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/faq

How do you know that?

The FAQ you link to says

"* Can I get a copy of a project that is already over and done?
Sort of. These are all limited editions, and once the project is sent to those who commissioned it, that project is over and done. Well, ok, we do a set of errata, but really, selling it is not the point. There’s no way to buy it at your FLGS, and no downloads are available from KQ.com.

HOWEVER. You can get a limited set of the previous projects if you are a patron of the current project."

"Sort of" and "limited set" doesn't sound reassuring to me.

---

Regardless, the price of these are sky-high, well out of proportion for a 4E adventure PDF.

I checked out the price of the next "project", Hall of the Mountain King. Not only do you need to pay in advance, but what does it cost you?

$5? $8? $10?

Not even close. Sticker price is $25!

For basic membership only! Does this put you on speaking terms with the author? Oh no - those twenty-five bucks get you "a copy" of the PDF (not even the original, eh?) and wait for it... "when it arrives"!

In order to be able to participate in the design process (which I presume would be the draw here), that is to "gain access to the senior patron discussion and the pitching process", and to get a printed copy, you need to fork up a whopping $75!

This Mr Baur must harbor delusions of grandeur indeed...!

(This is still fourth edition D&D adventures we're discussing, right? Not a Nobel Prize novel, I mean?)

Regardless, this sort of information is desperately lacking from the review.

[Beginning of the End]

Originally Posted by capnzapp

How do you know that?

You seem unnecessarily confrontational. I know it because I read it in the FAQ and because I've taken advantage of the same system to purchase a previous product (Castle Shadowcrag) while sponsoring the current project (which, at the time, was Empire of the Ghouls).

As I said in my original post, the only product you can't buy that way is the first one because Baur promised those sponsors that the product would remain exclusive to the sponsors. When he went back to them to see if they would be willing to waive the exclusivity he'd promised, at least some of them were NOT okay with that.

Regardless, the price of these are sky-high, well out of proportion for a 4E adventure PDF.

PDF for Keep on the Shadowfell: $21 for 145 pages
PDF for Thunderspire Labyrinth: $18 for 113 pages

The WotC adventure modules appear to be about $0.15 per page in PDF format.

Hall of the Dwarven King is $25 for 96 page plus a 48 page "bonus" product.

So we're talking about a $0.02 per page difference. I have difficulty describing a 10% price difference as "well out of proportion".

For basic membership only! Does this put you on speaking terms with the author? Oh no - those twenty-five bucks get you "a copy" of the PDF (not even the original, eh?) and wait for it... "when it arrives"!

As I mentioned in my previous message, I'm not a big fan of the process. But I can't imagine how you could have failed to understand basic English here. A $25 purchase plan for this products gives you "access to the design essays, design discussion, a copy of the PDF when it ships in late spring..." (emphasis added).

What part of the phrase "design discussion" is unclear?

This Mr Baur must harbor delusions of grandeur indeed...!

Anyone producing a product you don't want must be "harboring delusions of grandeur"?

Your hypocrisy is incredible.

In any case, the sponsorship requirements for Open Design have been met several times now. I'm not sure how repeatable, concrete, and verifiable success constitutes a "delusion".

I'm not a big fan of the way Baur chooses to do business, either. But it's not unethical. He's perfectly up-front about exactly what he's charging you for and how he's charging you for it. If you don't like it, don't buy the product.

But openly lying about what Baur is doing while calling him names doesn't seem like a very mature thing to do.

And let me also say this: It's clear you don't value any of the procedural aspects of the process. But those are a large part of what you're paying for when you purchase access to the Open Design project. I can see your point of view insofar as I have little or no interest in purchasing access to the design discussions, having access to beta test material, or the like.

But, on the flip-side, I'm also able to understand why some people WOULD be willing to pay for that.

Someone selling a product you don't like doesn't constitute delusion, egomania, or charlatry. Nor does it seem deserving of contempt.

Regardless, this sort of information is desperately lacking from the review.

And simply reviewing a product whose distribution method you don't like seems even less deserving of contempt.

[Joe_G_Kushner]

I'm glad for the review as it may generate interest in other adventurers following this model and provide a wider distribution for them. I've been a patron of one and if the new one goes 4e, I'm there.