[RPG]: Shadowrun: Ghost Cartels, reviewed by grandmaster_cain (4/2)

[RPGnet Reviews]

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14114.phtml

Cain's Summary:

Ghost Cartels promises a completely new and exciting way of presenting adventures. But does it deliver?

Go to the full review for more information.

[Droogydroog]

Your reviews might have more weight if not for your history of antagonistic reviews of Shadowrun products. Is there a particular reason you skipped over the fact that this is a new-and-untested format for Shadowrun adventures, or that it includes full stats for the NPCs in each chapter?

[cndblank]

The author has some valid points, but as far as being a fully realized campaign... just the vast number of NPCs with full stats and gear makes it worth while to a GM.

This is not Harlequin, but Harlequin could be worked in to almost any on going Shadowrun campaign. Harlequin is also a very high bar to set.

Ghost Cartels is a well equipped and fully stocked tool box for a GM. The authors are also very up front about it.

The Cast of Shadows are the largest and best I've every seen in an SR campaign book. They included the chief bad guys (with art), the lieutenants, and the grunts. They even included vehicle and drone stats. If nothing else I like having some good examples of what the Big Boys will have as cannon fodder and protection.

The main campaign is fully realized campaign but won't be for everyone. They do a good job suggesting spin offs and side jobs.

Certainly the campaign frame work can be used by any GM to drive events in his campaign.

Between the fully detailed NPCs and the well laid out set pieces (including the color maps), any GM will be able to put most of Ghost Cartels in to use over the average campaign.

Runners don't like drug lords then have them be running the shadows of Caracas or any of the other locations and get caught up in events. Nothing like a major disaster/riot/firefight to throw a monkey wrench to a run's plans.

I'll admit if you don't have a PDF getting the front background info in the first 45 pages of the book in to your player's hands is less than easy. If you do then it is a snap to print off just what you want them to see. Maybe Catalyst Game Labs can put most of that part of Ghost Cartels up on their download section.

Finally I missed all the Shadowtalk in the SR books and I'm glad to see it back. Between that and having the full stats for an Aztechnology strike team, Ghost Cartels more than worth while to me.

I'd give it at least a 4 for Style and a 4 for Substance.

[Spectral Knight]

Originally Posted by Droogydroog

Your reviews might have more weight if not for your history of antagonistic reviews of Shadowrun products.

An antagonistic review can still be accurate, especially if it's detailed and the reasons for the dislike are well-explained. Cain's tend to have both qualities. Personally, I tend to trust the negative reviews more than the giddy fanboy variety that gives 5s to both columns and gushes about the sheer awesomeness of the whole thing. With the negative reviewer, you know you're going to get a good, hard look at the product most of the time. Whether or not it's a coherent or useful look is another matter, but you get that with happy-happy-drool reviews, too.

Originally Posted by Droogydroog

Is there a particular reason you skipped over the fact that this is a new-and-untested format for Shadowrun adventures, or that it includes full stats for the NPCs in each chapter?

Sometimes new-and-untested just means that it's an early collection of fumbles, and if the plot is anything to go by, the format's not the only thing that needs work. This product joins the mountain of evidence out there that proves that early attempts don't always hit the high mark of quality.

As for the NPC stats, maybe that didn't stand out because that's the smart way to do it. I've seen the 'end-of-book appendix' way of including NPCs, and it tends to be both confusing and annoying, particularly when the NPC's first appearance isn't noted in the description. On the plus side, it sounds like there are enough NPCs to fill out quite a roster. That alone might be worth picking up the product (on Amazon or via PDF, where the cost is much more reasonable; those Catalyst productions ain't cheap).

Maybe, with time, the format will deliver what it intends to, but right now it looks like this cake could use some more time in the oven. Plenty of early ideas do, so it's hardly alone.

[Droogydroog]

Originally Posted by Spectral Knight

An antagonistic review can still be accurate, especially if it's detailed and the reasons for the dislike are well-explained. Cain's tend to have both qualities.

Let's be honest, based on his past reviews and forum comments Cain doesn't have an exactly open mind about SR4. Its possible to give a thorough and accurate review without being antagonistic to the game itself - it tends to color their entire report. Given, at least he's honest about his bias - its the first thing he brings up in the review.

Sometimes new-and-untested just means that it's an early collection of fumbles, and if the plot is anything to go by, the format's not the only thing that needs work. This product joins the mountain of evidence out there that proves that early attempts don't always hit the high mark of quality.

Which might be a fair review if you read the book, but Cain doesn't even mention it. Honestly, I'd suggest you take a gander at it yourself instead of trusting to the Grandmaster - who conveniently skipped the bulk of the globetrotting section and most of the GM-help tips and sidebars, which some people at least would find useful.

[bielmic]

do you really think you should be calling anyone antagonistic? droogy, your sig is "I hold you in contempt" and the first half of your post is commenting on the reviewer and not the review. i found the review quite helpful. i'd also find a review from an SR4 cheerleader like yourself helpful as i've just bought SR4 and a bunch of supplements. i tend to prefer printed adventures to my own creations so i'm thinking about picking up one for the system.

[grandmaster_cain]

Originally Posted by Droogydroog

Which might be a fair review if you read the book, but Cain doesn't even mention it. Honestly, I'd suggest you take a gander at it yourself instead of trusting to the Grandmaster - who conveniently skipped the bulk of the globetrotting section and most of the GM-help tips and sidebars, which some people at least would find useful.

I don't recall flaming you, so I'm wondering why you've chosen to attack me, and not the review. But at any event: I did mention both the globetrotting section (I thought individual scenes were generally good, but the overall connection between them was too weak to support a campaign) and the sidebars and GM aids.

[Droogydroog]

I also wear my biases on my shoulder, and I'm not a cheerleader. I'm not saying that this product (or any product) is perfect, because it isn't; but if you're going to fault a product it should be on its own merits and flaws and not your own approval or disapproval of those who make it.

Let me be clear: Grandmaster Cain, I don't bear you a grudge, and if I've come out like I do, I apologize. I just think your review was more colored by your strong feelings regarding SR4 than the actual content of the product.

If I was going to hit on some actual flaws (real or perceived) in the product, I might mention the fact that RAMhounds were mysteriously absent from the Cast of Shadows in the last chapter, or mention how the adventures in the second and third chapters are somewhat out of sync - the Seattle adventures in "The Source" actually take place chronologically before the last couple tracks in the previous chapter.

Of course, I might also mention how bitchin' I feel the Kowloon Massacre was when the Yama Kings showed up to feast during the battle between rival triads over the drug trade, or the fact that the first chapter inched the metaplot forward a little and might expand the interest of the book to more than just gamemasters (though admittedly they will get the most use out of it).

But at any event: I did mention both the globetrotting section (I thought individual scenes were generally good, but the overall connection between them was too weak to support a campaign) and the sidebars and GM aids.

Dude, you blew off an entire chapter in a couple sentences.

[grandmaster_cain]

The rest of your post is opinion, of which yours is as valid as mine. However:

Dude, you blew off an entire chapter in a couple sentences.

Is clearly untrue.

If you don't include sentences where I discuss the second chapter of game material and the third together, I still count 17+ sentences dealing with the topic. To put that in perspective, that's easily three whole paragraphs dedicated to "The Source".

[Droogydroog]

Dude, you spent practically none of those sentences talking about the actual content of the adventure tracks, which is the bulk of the chapter. The only thing anyone could take away from this is that the shadowrunners go from Seattle to Hong Kong to Neo-Tokyo to Los Angeles - you don't discuss any of the adventure tracks at all except for the assassination, and even that only in passing. People would actually need to have read the book to understand what you're talking about in your review.