Back in the 80's D&D sold well why in twenty five or more year has no one been able to copy that success ?
Three reasons:
(1) TSR, for reasons beyond comprehension, simply abandoned the mainstream market by stepping away from a traditionally packaged all-in-one box version of the game. (In other words, a complete version of the game that could be sold next to other games in mainstream stores.) Instead they replaced that product with a pay-to-preview advertisement in a box. WotC continued the pay-to-preview tradition with their Basic Games.
(2) Access. Even moreso than the book industry, the mainstream game industry is a pay-to-play market dominated by monopolistic forces and has been for decades. Getting onto the store shelves at Toys 'R Us or Walmart is pretty much impossible for everybody except for Hasbro/WotC. And since Hasbro/WotC doesn't want to market a mainstream product, there are no mainstream RPG products even competing with other mainstream games.
(3) Video games have cannibalized a part of the RPG marketspace. There were (and are) plenty of people who play RPGs for the fun-and-action of the combat simulation. The hack 'n slash gameplay, if you like. And this type of gameplay is precisely the type of gameplay that video games are completely superior at delivering: They do it with prettier graphics, at a faster pace, without requiring the players to do the math, and can either duplicate the social aspects of RPGs (LAN parties), make those social aspects accessible across large distances (online), or facilitate effective solo play in a way that RPGs can't.
Last edited by Beginning of the End; 05-27-2009 at 11:59 PM..
I was going to start a similar thread. The Dragon Age thread had me thinking.
I've no idea. My guess (untouched by any insider knowledge, experience in publishing, or particular insight) is that it was a fad, like Rubik's Cubes. In other words, inexplicable and unrepeatable.
That's not very helpful, of course. I think there are things that games can do to improve their appeal to outsiders (as opposed to hardened veterans like moi). But these measures, while they might improve sales, would not (I guess) ever bring things back up to the level of Eighties sales.
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I come from Wollongong. That's an Aboriginal word. It means `near BHP'.
---- Glynn Nicholas, "Wrung Out"
Corporations tend to think "short sighted"-ly. So, they're afraid to gamble money on a venture that may or may not work, even though it has worked in the past. I remember watching a review of the Basic D&D on educational television. It's the same reason we have umpteen sequels at the movies. Corporations are afraid to try something new or something they are leery about. D&D is kind of both of these. It would be easier for Hasbro, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Author of Picking Sides: The Seven Deadly Sins of Jonathan Sykes (fiction novel); see www.mynubook.com for more information.
+1 Depressing Anecdote Point from Flannel
I was going to start a similar thread. The Dragon Age thread had me thinking.
I've no idea. My guess (untouched by any insider knowledge, experience in publishing, or particular insight) is that it was a fad, like Rubik's Cubes. In other words, inexplicable and unrepeatable.
That's not very helpful, of course. I think there are things that games can do to improve their appeal to outsiders (as opposed to hardened veterans like moi). But these measures, while they might improve sales, would not (I guess) ever bring things back up to the level of Eighties sales.
your point that it could have been just a fad is frightening... how the hell will we ever get new gamers in real numbers again?
I get that but why has no done the box TSR did in the 80's then?
I'm not sure who this is addressed at, sorry.
If at me: Why has no other company produced introductory boxed set games? Damned if I know. Note how I bolded the word ‘guess’ a lot? I have no knowledge of how the gaming hobby-industry works. If I had to guess, it would be cost-related. (I think in the 80s lots of companies published boxed-set games. Call of Cthulhu's first edition came in a box. I know there were others. But everyone just stopped.)
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I come from Wollongong. That's an Aboriginal word. It means `near BHP'.
---- Glynn Nicholas, "Wrung Out"
If at me: Why has no other company produced introductory boxed set games? Damned if I know. Note how I bolded the word ‘guess’ a lot? I have no knowledge of how the gaming hobby-industry works. If I had to guess, it would be cost-related. (I think in the 80s lots of companies published boxed-set games. Call of Cthulhu's first edition came in a box. I know there were others. But everyone just stopped.)
it was open question based on your post... the point being if it worked why stop!?
your point that it could have been just a fad is frightening... how the hell will we ever get new gamers in real numbers again?
I don't think we will get huge numbers — though everyone should understand I would be fantastically delighted to be wrong.
As I hinted earlier, there are things a company can do to increase its potential audience. At the moment, the format of games can be a stumbling block: "Oh, you want to play a game? Here, read this 200pp of rules as homework first." Games need an entry-level format. The Dragon Age game, with its staggered release of rules, sounds like it will present just enough material to get started, without requiring the "homework" stage. That's a great thing.
So making it easier to get into gaming, into a specific product, is something that should be done.
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I come from Wollongong. That's an Aboriginal word. It means `near BHP'.
---- Glynn Nicholas, "Wrung Out"
Okay, my guess is about costs. I understand that in the <abbr title="United Kingdom">UK</abbr>, boxed games attract a higher <abbr title="Value-Added Tax">VAT</abbr> than do books; i.e., boxed sets are more expensive, leading to less sales. I can see how that would have hammered the local publishers (e.g., Games Workshop, at the time a republisher of overseas games as well as its own), and it could have hurt sales of imported games (if there were any), but I don't suppose that can be the whole reason.
Perhaps boxed sets just became more expensive to produce for some reason, thus making it desirable to stop? Or perhaps distribution of boxed sets became more expensive?
Lastly, the assumption here is that "it worked"? Did it? I don't dispute that gaming was big in the Eighties, but I already said that might have just been a fad. (Or partly because of faddism, anyway.)
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I come from Wollongong. That's an Aboriginal word. It means `near BHP'.
---- Glynn Nicholas, "Wrung Out"
Linear Mode
