4E vs. 3.5E vs. Pathfinder vs. Fantasy Craft...I'm overwhelmed!

[Shiva Nataraj]

How would you characterize the differences of the four mentioned games? Give a quick compare and contrast in some kind of format like "If you like complexity and crunch, you should play...If you like combat options, play...If you like improvisation, play..." etc. In other words, what sort of game play do they inspire? What sort of gamers does each cater to? How much number crunching does each require? How long is character creation? Etc.

[mathey]

It IS getting kinda crazy, is it not?

4E is a game where you know precisely what to expect. You're adventurers, you have familiar classes, you have very specific abilities and powers, and your opposition will be monsters in fantasy environments who provide you with experience points and treasure. Classes are well balanced, and everybody can contribute in nearly any scene. It is fairly rigid in its basis, but I expect it to expand as more source material is released and other settings are explored. DM preparation is relatively simple, and creating an adventure can be done with a few notes if you have the right material. If you like miniatures, tactical map-based combat, and a system that encourages teamwork, it should appeal to you. Except, you know, those of you who abhor it.

3.5E is a game where you can tinker quite a bit with choices to make a rounded or a unique conceptually specific character. There's rules to cover a lot of types of activities, and there are probably fewer assumptions about roles than in 4E. If you like spellcasters, you'll be happy with the range and selection of your abilities. DM preparation can be involved, but if you like very grounded and fully detailed NPCs, you might enjoy that. You can play with or without a map or miniatures, though there are some things that work better on a map. If you like a lot of options and having access to numerous books with more options, it might appeal to you. The fact that Paizo has so many Adventure Path campaigns for it may also be a bonus.

Pathfinder is a game where fans of 3.5E can see some new options and adjustments to particular classes without losing the fundamentals of that ruleset. Its easier to make magic items, and spellcasters are even better supported than before (ahem). DM preparation is a bit more clarified than 3.5E, and you have the option to simply convert 3.0-3.5 creature stats into your Pathfinder game. You can play with or without a map or miniatures, though there are some things that work better on a map. If you liked 3.0, 3.5E, or simply want a relatively new take on those rules that is compatible with Paizo's extensive line of support material, it might appeal to you.

FantasyCraft is a game with a new system that has some basis on D20, but that approaches many things in a new, distinct fashion. It is more of a toolkit for fantasy genre games than the above, which is good and bad: you aren't quite so locked down to a particular type of game, but you and your players will have to do more work when starting your own campaign. Balance is factored in pretty solidly, and origins, classes, feats, and magic offer numerous options for a number of play styles. The initial Species list for PCs includes some races that are "off limits" in other fantasy games. NPC and adventure creation is quick and allows for fast creation of new NPCs beyond those found in the book. World building is well supported as well, and you can tweak the rules rather simply through using Campaign Qualities to better fit your own vision of your campaign. Maps and miniatures are optional. If you like crunch and lots of system support for varying approaches to fantasy gaming, it might appeal to you.

My bias is fairly obvious, but I think there's room enough in the world for all of 'em.

[ArcTan]

I wouldn't mind phrasing it as FantasyCraft basically being an actual 3.75 (if not *the* 3.75 people wanted) while Pathfinder is 3.51.

[dread_sigil]

Don't forget Trailblazer too!

[MoogleEmpMog]

D&D 4e: A tightly purposed game about adventurers in a high fantasy world who fight a lot in the course of their quests. Extremely balanced for tactical gameplay in and out of combat. The easiest by leaps and bounds to run due to a great GM backend. Almost unique focus on teamwork-as-system-mastery. GAME-Story.

Mutants and Masterminds with Warriors and Warlocks: A separate branch of the d20 system emphasizing sword and sorcery fantasy, arguably with a special emphasis on sword and sorcery as presented in comics. The most flexible but also least compatible branch. Game-Story.

Star Wars Saga Edition and derivatives: A mid-crunch system about heroes in a space fantasy setting. Related and compatible advancement of the original branch of the d20 system, by way of d20 Modern. Fantasy conversions are available. Solves many of D&D 3.5's issues and adds much more weight to player narratives, while retaining compatibility. GAME-Story-World.

True20: A related branch to M&M, with most of the same issues. Slightly more generic fantasy flavor at the cost of slightly less flexibility. Story-Game.

FantasyCraft: A very crunchy toolkit system for fantasy play. Very flexible, especially for the GM. Compatibility issues with D&D 3.5 and its branch, but not insurmountable ones. Grown from the Spycraft branch of d20. Game-Story-World.

D&D 3.5: A crunchy system about adventurers in a high fantasy world. Strongly rewards system mastery in character creation rather than in play. Rules-as-physics and the physics of the world strongly favor certain types of characters. The best supply of supplementary material of any RPG ever. World-Game.

Pathfinder: The Paizo Publishing team's houserules for D&D 3.5, with better art and more current module support, but at the cost of some compatibility and balance issues with the wealth of existing supplements. World-Game.

[Agamemnon2]

Rest assured that whatever you choose, there's a hundred posters here who'll tell you you're doing it wrong and are a horrible person.

[Temet Nosce]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon2

Rest assured that whatever you choose, there's a hundred posters here who'll tell you you're doing it wrong and are a horrible person.

Now, now a hundred? ... Last I checked there were 35 thousand and I think most of them switch sides to optimize their chances of being able to tell someone what a terrible person they are.

Also, as far as the systems go I'll try to break them down as simply as possible.

4E: Casual tactical RPG.

3.5: In depth, detailed, rule/customization heavy RPG.

Pathfinder: 3.51 (If you're interested in this, I suggest just playing 3.5 first)

FantasyCraft: Do it yourself system.

[Agamemnon2]

Sorry, I was being conservative in my abject hatred of this subforum.

[Ferrus Animus]

You're a terrible person...and you...and you.....and you too.

[Temet Nosce]

Originally Posted by Ferrus Animus

You're a terrible person...and you...and you.....and you too.

And a terrible person you are as well my good sir! Most terrible indeed.