[5e, Transgender, LGB] FINALLY! Thanks!

Crowqueen

Corvus Sapiens
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This didn't even in the slightest crossed my mind. My point was simply to say " I want to do anything " and I could have said a Teenager boy carrying his lunchbox around. I just wanted to show the "anything" part. I'm sorry if I sounded offensive, but that was just a fictional example and character I came up with.

I understand your life must not be simple, and you must have went through lots of hardship, pains and the like. I have just one question in that case and it is Would they have to mention in a book, that if you want to play a disabled character on a wheel chair ( and OWOD did allow you that ) , a missing arm , a Trisomic , and the list can go on, Do they have to mention it too ( and I'm not comparing you to any of that, just stating more people which are different and not based on sex and/or sexuality ) ? Play what you want is simpler and encompasses everything. But if it makes your life happier than I'm all for that.

I know the difference, I used gay as an example of difference (which in all sincerity isn't really different for me in my day to day life, I mean he's a man that I talk to, that I work with, and what he does with his sexual life, is none of my business and concern, which is exactly the same to any white heterosexual if you ask me).

Like he said, there's two side of the medal to "being mentionned"

The good side is you're being acknowledged, talked, accepted. And that's good.

The bad side is you're being singled out as being different, while in reality, with most people, they don't know, need to know, and so on what happens in his bedroom, and just the fact that they know he is, changes how they treat him because their jerks/ignorant.
At this point, I might as well go ahead and ban you for a week. We have basic rules about this stuff here (rule 2, especially the last part, and the banned topics, which include questioning someone's gender identity, which that hamster remark certainly crossed whatever you intended by it). Given your joining date, I'm surprised you haven't bothered to read all that anyway, but I'll link them for good measure. While you're out, you can read them. Also, playing the concern troll with disabilities is off too.

EDIT: When you return, and if this thread is still active, do not post in it again.
 
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Particle_Man

White Knight
Validated User
I am not sure how disabilities would be played in D&D. In GURPS and the like you can get more character points by taking a disability as a disadvantage. With D&D, I imagine the urge would be to find a magical cure for the disability ASAP (Missing a hand? Get the party cleric to cast Regenerate!). Still, there is probably a way to do this sort of thing respectfully in D&D that I am currently not able to think through properly (but perhaps others can).
 

Zeea

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Before I posted this, I didn't know some things about those two contributors. In light of things I've found out today, I'mma have to say that I'm extra-disappointed and uncomfortable with them being involved, particularly Zak S. On the other hand, James Wyatt's paragraphs are amazing and I don't want to hurt the other developers. So, yeah. This is kinda ugly. *sigh*
 

Crowqueen

Corvus Sapiens
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I am not sure how disabilities would be played in D&D. In GURPS and the like you can get more character points by taking a disability as a disadvantage. With D&D, I imagine the urge would be to find a magical cure for the disability ASAP (Missing a hand? Get the party cleric to cast Regenerate!). Still, there is probably a way to do this sort of thing respectfully in D&D that I am currently not able to think through properly (but perhaps others can).
Honestly, if someone could wave a magic wand and cure my ASD I'd ask them to do it in a heartbeat. Others wouldn't, but I don't mind that implication myself; if my leg was broken, I'd want it to be fixed; I have flat feet, which are uncomfortable at the best of times now and caused me actual pain this spring, and so I buy comfortable footwear rather than wander round in unsuitable shoes because it might be disrespectful to other people with flat feet to try and solve the problem.

The issue might be that Regenerate is a scarce, expensive spell and the player is questing to either learn enough to cast it themselves or amass enough money to get the local temple to do so (because of legitimate expenses, say, of travelling to the holy city where there is a priest of a high enough level to cast that spell). That might accurately simulate the frustrations of being disabled IRL and having to live with it until someone found a cure, or perhaps forever because of a genetic disorder for whihc a cure is unlikely to be found. 'Respectful' IMO does not rule out the possibility of curing the problem by magical means; it's still a question of erasure versus introducing it in game in a sensitive manner, but I wouldn't say having it be a drawback is disrespectful, at least not in the way I personally experience Asperger's.
 
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Ariketh

Registered User
Validated User
It's nice to see WotC take this step forward. Taking the time to mention inclusivity (aside from some of the questionable word choices) clearly in a core book makes me a happy camper. My circle of friends is going to be pleased too. Good stuff!

-Ariketh
 

Cain

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Banned
As for disability, I would tread carefully. There was a thread on TRO where someone had the idea of writing a book on 'How to play someone with Asperger's'. I did find what he was proposing to be 'othering', particularly when I read his blog. Including mental, neurological* and physical handicaps in books is a good idea**, but the problem for me with ASDs is that I don't find it to be a positive or neutral characteristic; I find it a negative aspect of myself. I'd rather not see us treated by standalone books that treat us as 'magical disabled people'; there's ways of doing neurodiversity in gaming, and ways of making people uncomfortable with the sort of stereotypes that get us treated differently, particularly if we ourselves want to integrate rather than stand apart.

In this way, I hope, if it is mentioned at all, the treatment is sensitive, but I'd counsel against any product which went into archetypes, especially regarding the neurologically-conditioned, that elevated us into the position of savants or holy fools or 'touched' or whatever. Unfortunately, in some treatments, there's still an urge to elevate us rather than integrate us, when the corresponding 'magical' plotlines for other diverse characters have largely been eroded in the best and most forward-thinking literature.
I also have autism. If I'm ever forced to model it in a game, I'd definitely avoid the "magical savant" thing, I know what a crock that is. I used the graphics card analogy in another thread: my brain is a computer that doesn't have a graphics card. That means I have to use my main CPU (my conscious mind) to analyze and understand things that other people understand instinctively. I might be very smart, but it's not because of the autism. If anything, it hold me back, because I have to spend more time figuring out social cues. In turn, that limits my ability to think about other things.
 

Red Desert

New member
Wizards of the Coast joins the recently exploding list of game companies (Onyx Path, Paizo, and quite a ton of designers here) acknowledging the existence of transgender people and non-straight sexual orientations.

"You don't need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender. The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen as androgynous or hermaphroditic, for example, and some elves in the multiverse are made in in Corellon's image. You could also play a female character who presents herself as a man, a man who feels trapped in a female body, or a bearded female dwarf who hates being mistaken for a male. Likewise, your character's sexual orientation is for you to decide."

That's actually a fairly comprehensive and deep understanding of the subject crammed into one paragraph, and it really caught me off guard, since D&D has always tried to avoid this subject in the past. I'm going to go ahead and give it an A rating on this.

EDIT: The "trapped in X body" thing is a little cliched and maybe there's some problems with it, but really, I think they did a great job of explaining it and showing many different reasons a dwarf with ovaries might seem to present as male or masculine.
I am curious to why you LBT people think you are entitled to get these genders and sexes into Dungeons and Dragons and other games? How many are you and how economically strong are you?

A much bigger group that get neglected is Asians, Africans and Latin Americans and you never see them get any form av notice in games like this. Also, in a feudal society. Problems with famine and disease would be much bigger than worrying over your sexual preferences or gender. There can be an orc invasion around the corner and there is people feeling trapped in another body?

Is this really something you just have to have on paper to some how make it "approved and okay". I do not understand it. Just play what you want, why need to have it on paper?

Also, Corellon was clearly a male elf god married to Lolth before she became the Queen of spiders.

Already handled :). --- Crowqueen
 
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Crowqueen

Corvus Sapiens
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I am curious to why you LBT people think you are entitled to get these genders and sexes into Dungeons and Dragons and other games? How many are you and how economically strong are you?

A much bigger group that get neglected is Asians, Africans and Latin Americans and you never see them get any form av notice in games like this. Also, in a feudal society. Problems with famine and disease would be much bigger than worrying over your sexual preferences or gender. There can be an orc invasion around the corner and there is people feeling trapped in another body?

Is this really something you just have to have on paper to some how make it "approved and okay". I do not understand it. Just play what you want, why need to have it on paper?

Also, Corellon was clearly a male elf god married to Lolth before she became the Queen of spiders.
I'll quote Rule 2 here, shall I?

Rule 2: Do not make attacks against other gamers. Challenging arguments and ideas is fine, but not attacking the people holding them. This includes attacks on an individual poster, or groups that any reasonable person would understand includes fellow RPGnetters. Gaming industry professionals are assumed to be users of the site for this purpose. Racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic posts will not be tolerated.
which is what you've done here by the fundamental standards of this community.

See you in two weeks for this, and the blatant concern troll (not least because it's untrue; the basic rules put in considerable diversity into their write-ups of humans, so you can't use that element against the LGBT community either).
 

TechnocratJT

Want be in Avengers 5
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Ok, zero tolerance time.

The next homophobic or transphobic post is getting a very long vacation.
 
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