A Feminist RPG or Kickstarter Gold Rush in full swing?

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#81
Where did I say feminists are misandryst? I simply made a statement about the definintion of the word, which is not about equality. Anymore than me supporting 'Andrism' is about equality. Egalitarianism on the other hand.

However in modern society it is a convient place to avoid return argument as you can claim the moral high ground. You don't need to claim boldy you are a feminist or you are insituting 'feminist' ideals to support women. That someone thinks they need to let everyone know that what they are saying is feminist is just a method people use to assign moral superiority to their argument.

Hellebore
This is something that is often said by people who have no actual experience with academic feminism, feminist literature, and the actual ideas of feminist thought.

Feminism is about egalitarianism, it is not limited to just equality between genders but also often includes discussion about equality between ethnic groups. It is a field of thought.

Unfortunately, a lot of people (maybe even you) seem to believe feminism is about Valeria Solanas and some caricature of Andrea Dworkin.
 

Toxicbob2000

Wannabe GM
Validated User
#82
As a white, straight dude from a Protestant background but who is functionally agnostic (IE, I couldn't be more privileged unless I came from the upper class) my biggest problem with this blurb is that it doesn't really suggest anything to me about being really feminist.

I would think a feminist game would work on breaking down binaries, but this seems to be all about society/outcast, good/evil, heartbroken/happy, etc. More significantly, I'd expect it to do something about GM/Player and PC/NPC.

If it has a conflict subsystem, that clinches it. It might as well be Patriarchy: The Phallusing. ;)
 

Bruce Redux

Not flying or biting
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#83
People who don't know about the Ethiopian Coptic branch of Christianity can fix that, thanks to Wikipedia; there've been black Christian priests at least since the 4th century AD, and likely since the 1st.

Back on the subject of women and their gaming: notice that right in this thread we've got people who start with the assumption that such a focus is illegitimate, and that they must be convinced to the contrary before they're willing to tolerate it, let alone approve of it. Very few people say that about games with a tight focus on nobles, or archmages, or vampires - in a whole lot of cases, "not my thing" does not translate into the impulse to denounce and demand some proof of the legitimacy of concept. But it happens all the time with games that'll focus on female characters, and all the time with games that make romance and relationships important.

Which is itself a demonstration of why it's a good thing for projects like this to get a chance.
 

Levi

Slayer Of Spambots.
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#85
The Kickstarter Page?

Just got an FAQ section.

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Nice idea, but are you going to tell us about the game mechanics?
Yep! This weekend was taken up with getting the financial logistics -- cleared through Amazon, etc -- worked out, but we'll be posting some game mechanics (and setting info!) soon. We know that's important to many of you, and we agree. So expect to see those in a day or two.

Are you saying all that women want is "romance"? Isn't that stereotypical?
Nah. I'm saying this is the game I'm making -- because it's the game I want to play. Certainly this isn't the be-all and end-all of women in RPGs, nor is it meant to be. It's not even the last word on feminism in gaming, or the first word. It's just my word, and I feel that I can best present my point of view through creation of roleplaying game with themes that I'd enjoy playing. If you're interested in helping explore these themes, come along with me -- and write your own game, or your own blog, or share your thoughts.

If you're female or male (or anyone else) and you aren't interested in feminist romance/adventure in your RPGs, then this won't be the game for you. Thankfully, there are plenty of other awesome games in this hobby, many of which I really enjoy playing myself.

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Sounds pretty solid to me.
 
#86
Back on the subject of women and their gaming: notice that right in this thread we've got people who start with the assumption that such a focus is illegitimate, and that they must be convinced to the contrary before they're willing to tolerate it, let alone approve of it. Very few people say that about games with a tight focus on nobles, or archmages, or vampires - in a whole lot of cases, "not my thing" does not translate into the impulse to denounce and demand some proof of the legitimacy of concept. But it happens all the time with games that'll focus on female characters, and all the time with games that make romance and relationships important.

Which is itself a demonstration of why it's a good thing for projects like this to get a chance.
+1!


Jim
 
#87
So, I used to be you. I was a scourge of "political correctness" and "excessive" racial sensitivity. So I coming down hard on you would be like coming down hard on myself. But I can tell you true: this stuff you're finding in the Kickstarter text? That's all you.

That goes for the rest of you dudes who find the text offensive. You're reacting to the scary feminist in your head, not to what the designer actually wrote.
Well, if you want my attention then shouting about how what you're doing is feminist is not it. It's the argument, not the title that proves it either way. Why do you need to say what you're doing is 'feminist' at all? The only time I've seen it used is to try and garner some kind of 'street cred', authenticity or moral superiority. It's no different to coming along and saying 'I'm a phyisicist so listen to meee'... I believe that is a falacy known as 'argument from authority'.

What does this even mean? "Historically accurate" for a made-up daydream world? The planet we know gives all kinds of examples of more and less bigoted archaic societies. And it's just one planet. There's no Iron Law that people in Made-Up Daydream-World X have to reproduce the same kinds and degrees of bigotry one saw in various historical societies.
No but it's also bizarre to see a world that has humans in it ostensibly for us to relate to acting all medieval (it's ok to murder dozens of people but we can't mention racism?) that is absent of things that make medieval in the first place.

It is even less ridiculous when you realize that gaming is something done by real people, today. If I have a black friend, or a gay friend, or a trans friend, or a female friend who wants to play a kickass Victorian monster hunter who kinda resembles her or him, what am I supposed to say to my friend's face? "Suck it up, buddy!"

Is that how you handle it: look your friend in the eye and say, "suck it up?" And if your friend says, "But I don't WANT to suck it up!" what do you say then?
See my post you quoted where I said I agreed with people playing games for fun, not being forced to suffer. That doesn't change the way the setting is presented though, nor how disconnected it looks.

Except, the Kickstarter text claims no such thing. The Kickstarter text says the hobby could be more inclusive, which does not constitute an argument that the hobby is not at all inclusive, because the fallacy of the excluded middle is a fallacy. One of the ways she wants to see it be more inclusive appears to be thematically: more room for the tropes of romantic fantasy, which sells like fucking crazy in the book market but is not broadly represented in gaming. Yes, there is Blue Rose. The fact that Blue Rose exists does not mean the genre never needs another romantic fantasy RPG ever anywhere THE END!!!!
It implies that it isn't inclusive enough (not equal). If it was equally inclusive then making it 'more inclusive' is actually making it skewed TOWARDS women ie sexist. So in order for the kickstart argument to work the current RPG climate would have to not be inclusive enough or equal. In this (as I said in a previous post before everyone went apeshit) you can definitely argue this from the perspective of some of the art (I loathe combat heels and chainmail bikinis because they just look ridiculous) but the games aren't designed to make women feel less or more welcome. If she wants more inclusivity then making an RPG with sensible looking female characters would probably fix most of the perceived problems.

Any current game a woman plays can be played from the perspective of a broken hearted woma

Hellebore
 

David J Prokopetz

Social Justice Henchman
RPGnet Member
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#88
Nice idea, but are you going to tell us about the game mechanics?
I wonder if she saw this thread? :D

No but it's also bizarre to see a world that has humans in it ostensibly for us to relate to acting all medieval [...]
Your average tabletop fantasy setting isn't particularly medieval; the default setting of D&D itself is a mishmash of everything from the High Middle Ages through to the German Renaissance, with random elements from both earlier and later periods extending clear to the late 1700s, and culturally resembles your average early 80s Renfaire much more closely than it does any real-world society.
 
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Topher

Member
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Banned
#90
I've come to realize that threads focused on feminism are not baneful headache-inducers after all. They're blessings in disguise, providing me with ample fodder for my ignore list and making RPGnet a pleasanter place for me.

Topher, making lemonade
 
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