A rebuttal to the Feminist Frequency Damsel video I actually liked.

Moah

Platypus powaaa!
Validated User
I disagree strongly with what she says, although I admit she says it well.
 

Mortimer

Registered User
Validated User
I can see her points and agree to a degree.

But than I read the comments which always puts me in a foul mood.
 

DoctorDogGirl

New member
Banned
My opinion?

I think it sucks there's not more proactive female characters and that we don't get to see Peach centered games and Zelda-centered games.

Not to mention the laziness of the plot.

I do agree, however, that a Damsel in Distress can be more than just a plot device but a central part of the story--which Zelda is.

I'm not sure about Peach, outside of the comics and cartoon.
 

Azaael

Have you the strength?
Validated User
....I really like this woman.

She brings up some interesting and solid points(actually touching on the fact that importance is not linked to a physical attribute-I know that a lot of people know this is not the case, but I think enough do that I give her a thumbs up for pointing it out, for example.) Now not EVERYTHING 100% I agree with, as always. I'm not sure Smash's sales had anything to do with Peach, for example. And I DO know there are instances where the woman to be rescued is pretty flat. And of course there are issues in general with female portrayal. But I like how she looked at things from a different angle. She strikes me as someone that DOES want positive and proactive females in games but she's giving it a pretty nicely objective look.

It's very interesting actually-two women with very good intentions at the end of the day-but have different ways of going about it. I think this is actually good for things. It shows that everyone isn't a hivemind(and let's face it, there's a perception among detractors that all feminists are a hivemind) and there are different things that should be looked at.

(I will actually say a lot of people also forget to mention Toadstool's playability in Mario RPG.)
 

Plumy Namesake

Social Justice Commoner
Validated User
It felt a little strawmanny, because she took statements that were originally applied to the entirety of the data and held them up to only Zelda and Peach. Yes, we should look at the whole of a character whenever we can, but in the vast majority of the cases documented, "being kidnapped" is all that there is to them. Zelda and Peach are obviously atypical characters, just by the number times they've been represented in games. Ignoring such a central piece of information makes the argument built on that foundation rather unconvincing. Furthermore, Anita acknowledges that Zelda's more active role.

Another statement that irked me was this one. (...) without quantitative evidence to support her conclusion, it's nothing more than an assumption". The video this is supposedly a rebuttal to is nearly nothing but quantitative evidence. Just look at it from around twelve minutes in.
 
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Chucky

Chupa-thingy
Validated User
I find it amusing that she says we shouldn't ignore the fact that Princess Peach is a playable character in all the Mario games that don't have a plot as if it somehow matters in discussing the games with a plot, however threadbare they might be, in the platformer series. Also I admit I'm not the biggest gamer out there but is it just me or did she have to hit some obscure games to find female protagonists saving people. Leaving aside the issue pointing four or five specific games where a trend doesn't appear doesn't disprove that a trend exists.
 

Azaael

Have you the strength?
Validated User
I find it amusing that she says we shouldn't ignore the fact that Princess Peach is a playable character in all the Mario games that don't have a plot as if it somehow matters in discussing the games with a plot, however threadbare they might be, in the platformer series. Also I admit I'm not the biggest gamer out there but is it just me or did she have to hit some obscure games to find female protagonists saving people. Leaving aside the issue pointing four or five specific games where a trend doesn't appear doesn't disprove that a trend exists.
Well, Final Fantasy 7 is one of the most popular JRPGs ever made, period. Chrono Trigger is FAR from obscure. If you're not a big RPG fan, it's seen as one of the seminal games of JRPGs, period. Parasite Eve is more 'cult', but not unknown in the RPG realm. Donkey Kong Country are not unpopular platformers at all, DKC2 is often seen as the pinnacle of the series, in fact. Pocky and Rocky was more of a cult game. The Mickey Mouse game is pretty on the down-low though. I've only heard of it.

And things are getting interesting. I mean really when it comes down to it-people simply have different opinions. Take in the other thread that blog a woman wrote on Bayonetta, and how she found her incredibly empowering in every way. Anita Sarkeesian, on the other hand, has very, very few positive things about the character. Two feminists, one character, two completely different opinions. IMO, neither of them are wrong-or right. It's simply how they took the character.

I can't quite put into words why this video sorta rung well with me, but it did. I didn't read it as trying to disprove that the trend exists. I got the impression that she quite enjoys seeming positive female characters in games. I think she was simply trying to point out some other instances of them and putting a different spin on things, looking at things from a different angle.
 

Naz

Fake Doctor
Validated User
I do agree, however, that a Damsel in Distress can be more than just a plot device but a central part of the story--which Zelda is.
This is absolutely true, but in focusing on this I feel that she either intentionally or unintentionally missed the point of what she was responding to. Good writers can write about anything they want without necessarily creating problems - social injustice, slavery, sexual abuse, drug addiction.. people who have power, people who don't, whatever. That's really not the point, though. The fact that female characters are portrayed in a certain way a majority of the time, regardless of the fact that it's theoretically possible to portray them this way without necessarily sending the wrong message, has some real social significance.

And I very strongly disagree with her "you should always be nice about drawing attention to social problems" bit.
 

Rainfall

Registered User
Validated User
And I very strongly disagree with her "you should always be nice about drawing attention to social problems" bit.
Depends on the goal and the context, if your goal is to educate and get people to see your point, yeah, you should be nice about it. If only because basic neurology shows people close down if you scream in their face and call them names.

Now being at a protest denouncing, say, a new anti-abortion bill? No need to be polite. The goal isn't to convince the lawmakers, it's to convince people who already agree with you to protest with you and make enough of a nuisance of yourself that the lawmakers find it preferable to back down rather than have a mess on their hands.

I do like this video, I'm especially happy that it even exists. She has some good points, though I agree she seems to have missed a bit of the nuance in Sarkeesian video.
 
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