🎨 Creative [All] Fantastic Elements

[DMH]

Here is something Sleeper wrote for the illusionist thread:

This is a bit of a segue, but I've always disliked is the idea that magic is a separate force. That a fantasy world follows the exact same natural laws our does, with magic serving as a set of cheat codes that allows those natural laws to be violated. I much prefer magic to be an innate part of a fantasy world. Magic isn't a violation of the natural order; it is the natural order. A fantasy world isn't run by F=MA and the laws of thermodynamics and Mendelian heredity; thunder happens because spirits are playing not because of electrical potentials, monsters appear by spontaneous generation instead of natural selection, and medicine relies on balancing the humors instead of germ theory for effective treatments.

One example of how this thinking permeates D&D is anti-magic. The whole concept only makes sense if you think of magic as an artificial layer on top of a world that follows our natural laws. A layer that can be stripped off or taken away, leaving behind a world where things happen just like in our own. But that's not how our ancestors thought magic worked. To them, magic was an inherent part of the world. Some things are more magical, like unicorns, but nothing is truly without magic. If you twist a strand of grass in the right way and put it in your pillow, it will protect you. Not because you have magical talent and drew an otherworldly force into mundane grass, but because that's an inherent quality of grass and weaving. The magic was there. You can't strip away magic from the world any more than you can strip science away from ours.

This lack of magical thinking also impacts certain class features. For instance, why does 3E require alchemists to be spell casters? Why is learning how to cast formal spells a prerequisite for knowing how to combine and distill the quintessential properties of various substances to create a certain effect? It's because, to modern minds, magic is an external force, and only those who are attuned to that magical force can manipulate it. Same with thieves. Why are thieves mostly helpless when it comes to disabling magical traps? "It's magic, and thieves don't do magic!" But in our world, who's better at disabling a security system? A thief or security specialist, or an engineer? The thief should be the expert at foiling runes, and a thieves' bag of tools should contain eyes of newt and slivers of basilisk tongues, or whatever is needed to bypass a symbol or a glyph. They don't have to know how to build the fantasy equivalent of a laser, just how to detect one with the fantasy equivalent of an aerosol.

Most importantly, why does D&D assume that only spellcasters can create magic items? My mental model for magic-item creators is Norse or Germanic dwarves, Tolkien's Noldor, and armorers like Weyland. After all, medieval superstition considered steel to be a highly magical material in itself, and they attributed magical powers to those who worked the metal, as well — blacksmiths supposedly sang spells into the red hot bars. Wonder workers like Taleisin and Loki might have had fun casting spells and transforming themselves, but most of the most powerful items were created by craftsfolk, not spellcasters.

D&D consistently treats magic as something separate and distinct, assumes that only magic can counter magic, and that only a select few can manipulate magic. Ick.

Which is a long-winded way of saying magical != spell casting, and casting spells should not be part of the default repertoire of a magic-item creating class.

So let's drop kick science- physics, biology, meterorology, chemistry, geology, etc. and see what fantastic elements we can create that can be applied to any edition.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

I don't know: I like science. I like electrical potentials and natural selection and germ theory.

What I don't like is prescribed reality: someone telling me I have to stick to one set of reality rules rather than selecting what I like from any set. Being told to

....drop kick science- physics, biology, meterorology, chemistry, geology, etc....

is just as bad as being told that magic has to be a thing overlaid on physics.

I'm all for creating fantastic magical stuff. I just don't see why my inspiration can't be physics.

 

[Dorchadas]

One of the main things I nearly always do is ditch the idea that the game takes place on a planet, which exists in space, and is orbiting a sun, and so on. I like flat worlds, or Hollow World-style worlds on the inside of a sphere, or fruit hung from the World Tree, or literal Points of Light where the landscape in between areas of civilization warps and changes and distances between cities aren't stable.

 

[Kimera757]

This is a bit of a segue, but I've always disliked is the idea that magic is a separate force. That a fantasy world follows the exact same natural laws our does, with magic serving as a set of cheat codes that allows those natural laws to be violated. I much prefer magic to be an innate part of a fantasy world. Magic isn't a violation of the natural order; it is the natural order. A fantasy world isn't run by F=MA and the laws of thermodynamics and Mendelian heredity; thunder happens because spirits are playing not because of electrical potentials, monsters appear by spontaneous generation instead of natural selection, and medicine relies on balancing the humors instead of germ theory for effective treatments.

Off-hand, nothing but F=Ma and thermodynamics are incompatible with D&D. ASoIaF outright defies Mendelian genetics (and I'm not talking the Targaryens). There are plenty of settings where lightning is literally being thrown by gods (or servants thereof) and fairies literally paint the frost on windows in winter. You can rationalize Heal checks as modifying humors rather than killing germs; there were doctors, and even some effective ones, before the germ theory was popularized. ("Always wash the wound with boiled wine. I don't know why it works, I just know that it does.")

Magic is a separate force in D&D for "niche protection". This is something wizards can do, but Bob the Fighter can't, because the wizard has no armor and few hit points and minimal fighting ability. It wouldn't be fair if Bob got his great AC and load of hit points and ability to kick butt and magic on top of that.

One example of how this thinking permeates D&D is anti-magic. The whole concept only makes sense if you think of magic as an artificial layer on top of a world that follows our natural laws. A layer that can be stripped off or taken away, leaving behind a world where things happen just like in our own. But that's not how our ancestors thought magic worked. To them, magic was an inherent part of the world. Some things are more magical, like unicorns, but nothing is truly without magic. If you twist a strand of grass in the right way and put it in your pillow, it will protect you. Not because you have magical talent and drew an otherworldly force into mundane grass, but because that's an inherent quality of grass and weaving. The magic was there. You can't strip away magic from the world any more than you can strip science away from ours.

So you're looking for a way for superstition to play a role in the game? In today's attempted balance game design, that's hard to do. You'll just get people who want their +2 saving throw bonus for knocking on wood, etc. The easiest way to do that is to make this some sort of feat or trait. (Which would mean that for many characters, knocking on wood is worthless, but they'll probably keep doing it anyway.) Alternatively, you could inflict an all-round penalty, which can be eliminated by being appropriately superstitious. That would get everyone into it, real fast.

As for not using "real-life physics", that would cause a tremendous headache. There's already a lack of it (terminal velocity is the oft-cited example) but if physics were completely unlike on Earth, you'd have to spare a moment of thought before taking every action. D&D and other games are better-served by being "like reality, except as stated otherwise..."

This lack of magical thinking also impacts certain class features. For instance, why does 3E require alchemists to be spell casters? Why is learning how to cast formal spells a prerequisite for knowing how to combine and distill the quintessential properties of various substances to create a certain effect? It's because, to modern minds, magic is an external force, and only those who are attuned to that magical force can manipulate it.

I think it's also because people in a D&D setting don't actually know chemistry, so they're using magic to mix random-seeming substances instead. I don't know why alchemy requires magic in 3rd Edition. It's a common house rule to not require that. In 4e it's not magic; you can make a lot of alchemical items using just the Thievery skill.

Same with thieves. Why are thieves mostly helpless when it comes to disabling magical traps? "It's magic, and thieves don't do magic!" But in our world, who's better at disabling a security system? A thief or security specialist, or an engineer? The thief should be the expert at foiling runes, and a thieves' bag of tools should contain eyes of newt and slivers of basilisk tongues, or whatever is needed to bypass a symbol or a glyph. They don't have to know how to build the fantasy equivalent of a laser, just how to detect one with the fantasy equivalent of an aerosol.

In 3rd Edition, thieves can disable magical traps. In fact, they're the only characters who can do so without magic, and they don't need any ranks in Knowledge (arcana) or Spellcraft to pull that off. (A spellcaster is often less able to deal with a magic trap. If they don't have Dispel Magic or some other appropriate spell, they have to look helpless at the rogue.)

Most importantly, why does D&D assume that only spellcasters can create magic items? My mental model for magic-item creators is Norse or Germanic dwarves, Tolkien's Noldor, and armorers like Weyland. After all, medieval superstition considered steel to be a highly magical material in itself, and they attributed magical powers to those who worked the metal, as well — blacksmiths supposedly sang spells into the red hot bars. Wonder workers like Taleisin and Loki might have had fun casting spells and transforming themselves, but most of the most powerful items were created by craftsfolk, not spellcasters.

Pretty sure every Noldor is magical but I get the point. In 4e, there actually is an ability to craft a "magic item" without magic. It's just not in the core rules. I bet there's some non-core alternate rules in 3rd Edition that allow the same thing. Or a simple house rule. (Anyone could take an item-creation feat, or at least an appropriate one. Perhaps fighters cannot craft magic wands, but can craft armor or weapons. Each item creation feat might have a skill requirement, with Spellcraft a requirement for items that are mainly useful only to spellcasters.)

Which is a long-winded way of saying magical != spell casting, and casting spells should not be part of the default repertoire of a magic-item creating class.

While it's not exactly what you want, the 3e Eberron campaign setting has non-casting/weak-casting classes that focus just on producing items. However, the ability to make magic items is not by itself useful for adventuring. The magewright class is an NPC class.

In 4th edition, ritual performance, while a sort of magic, is not niche protected. Spellcasters get it more often because it's a "free" part of their training, but any fighter or rogue who spends a feat or two can pick it up.

 

[thedroid]

D&D has addressed superstitions at least a little bit by including garlic and wolvesbane and holy water in equipment lists and giving them powers in the game. I suppose you could devise your own list of superstitions that work that are peculiar to your game world, but be prepared for every character to walk around with a star drawn in ashes on his forehead, or whatever.

Making medieval medicine actually work is a pretty common house ruling to get around the need for clerics and shouldn't upset the game at all.

Giving thieves the ability to bypass magical wards is new to me, but not a bad rule. Thieves need more power.

Alchemists making potions and dwarves making magic swords is probably OK provided it's not too easy and requires high level, great expense, rare materials, or all three.

There's a free LOTR rpg called "Legends of Middle Earth" that separates "magic" -- shooting someone with a bolt of lightning -- from "spells" -- which are the sort of things that keep you from opening a door unless you know the right word or seeing the invisible writing except under certain conditions -- and "crafts," which are the mundane arts that seem magical to the uninitiated, like making swords of superb quality. It's an interesting distinction.

 

[Lugaru]

The only place I draw a line is with Ecology, I'm a bit of a biology nerd so it rubs me the wrong way when you have a "pack of giant voracious meat eaters" in a desert. But the solution is easy, ignore half of the 1,000 monsters out there.

Honestly I like every class to be a little bit magical, meaning everyone can eventually do something that seems like a minor miracle. 4e plays with this a little with the Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies... like "you are so good at stealth, you are invisible!" or "you hit so hard, you can make the earth shake!". I'm not saying everyone needs an anime style super power, but being able to do reality denying feats helps with the escapism of role playing.

 

[Neaden]

If you have not had the chance check out Glorantha , it seems to do a lot of what you are looking for here.

 

[Lesp]

I like the idea that the fey realms run specifically on "makes sense" physics. There are "rules", but they're rules that either don't really make much sense to an outsider or that are sort of folksonomic. As you go deeper into fey-world, superstition and "makes sense to me" supplant physics in terms of determining how the world works. This can even be built into some iconic fey creatures. A pixie can fly because it has wings, and wings mean you can fly, whether or not the pixie's wings are large enough or move fast enough to actually support its weight. It's possible to be so good at hiding that you're literally invisible. If hearing a catchy song sort of makes you feel like dancing, then a SUPER catchy song irresistibly compels you to dance. If something beautiful is dazzling, than the most beautiful things can literally physically blind you.

A positive fey creature is often bold beyond what its physical form should warrant because it's used to things going its way, because its psyche shapes the world around it. A shy or craven or tricky fey creature is the same - its mentality is self-reinforcing. A tricky sprite is extra tricky because it thinks it's very tricky, and every minor trick reinforces this in a sort of feedback loop. You might feel like a rube for falling for a dumb sprite's trick, but it worked because of how confident the sprite is that it's tricky and you're a rube, more than because the trick was inherently that clever.

 

[Skycroft]

Pretty sure every Noldor is magical

Tolkein is kind of a good example here, maybe. The stuff the Elves do is considered magic - by hobbits and most men. But it's really just a variation of Clarke's Law: Sufficiently Advanced Craft. On the other hand, saying "all elves are magical" is an equally valid way of looking at it.

 

[DMH]

The only place I draw a line is with Ecology, I'm a bit of a biology nerd so it rubs me the wrong way when you have a "pack of giant voracious meat eaters" in a desert. But the solution is easy, ignore half of the 1,000 monsters out there.

Or you can simply justify it by saying desert creatures are much more efficient and thus only require 5% of the diet of those species found in forests and oceans.