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All Purpose Genesys Thread

CitizenKeen

Rules Lawyer
Validated User
I'm currently running a Macross Hack of Age of Rebellion/Genesys and it's revealed some interesting holes in the vehicle combat system (why is scale the only thing that effects hit difficulties in vehicles? Why not speed?) but generally it's been working well and is a lot of fun, even better with the tweaked rules from Genesys rather than pure Age of Rebellion.
I feel like the vehicle rules are Genesys's weak point. That being said, relative speed does come up with Gain the Advantage, which is crucial to winning most combats.
 

estrogenesys

socially engineered
Validated User
I feel like the vehicle rules are Genesys's weak point. That being said, relative speed does come up with Gain the Advantage, which is crucial to winning most combats.
They really are. I GM Edge of the Empire. Genesys Core made some improvements we ported over, but honestly I would scrap the whole thing and start over if I didn't feel like I would have to re write and rebalance all of the Pilot trees and ship stats
 

CitizenKeen

Rules Lawyer
Validated User
They really are. I GM Edge of the Empire. Genesys Core made some improvements we ported over, but honestly I would scrap the whole thing and start over if I didn't feel like I would have to re write and rebalance all of the Pilot trees and ship stats
Yeah, I'm 2/3 of the way motivated to grab SWN Revised's starship rules and port them over. Since I don't have to deal with trees, it'll be easier.

Only thing holding me back is a Savage Worlds-esque aversion to hacking before I have enough games under my belt.
 

estrogenesys

socially engineered
Validated User
Yeah, I'm 2/3 of the way motivated to grab SWN Revised's starship rules and port them over. Since I don't have to deal with trees, it'll be easier.

Only thing holding me back is a Savage Worlds-esque aversion to hacking before I have enough games under my belt.
Reading SWN RE right now and wanting to do the same thing, I just don't think it would handle dogfighting as well as other systems (and I think that's important in a Star Wars game).
 

colgrevance

Registered User
Validated User
I think the vehicle rules actually work rather well in the situation they were (I assume) written for: when the pcs are all crew of a small freighter starship like the Millenium Falcon, fighting off starfighters and occasionally having to dodge capital ships.

In all other encounters, especially dogfighting, they are somewhat lacking, though still workable - it mostly depends on your preferred level of mechanical abstraction, which is quite high in Genesys.
 

estrogenesys

socially engineered
Validated User
Considering I'm planning a Force & Destiny campaign in the near future, I'd be curious to hear in what way Genesys improved upon those rules.
By "some" I really mean "one"; the Barrel Roll action which drastically improves player survivability, and was already house ruled by the community in the form of the "snap roll".
 

estrogenesys

socially engineered
Validated User
I think the vehicle rules actually work rather well in the situation they were (I assume) written for: when the pcs are all crew of a small freighter starship like the Millenium Falcon, fighting off starfighters and occasionally having to dodge capital ships.

In all other encounters, especially dogfighting, they are somewhat lacking, though still workable - it mostly depends on your preferred level of mechanical abstraction, which is quite high in Genesys.

I'm very comfortable with the level of abstraction the system provides, it suffers from not having anything for PC's to do if they're not piloting or shooting. The choices aren't meaningful, and a crew as small as 4-5 on a Falcon-sized vessel ensures that there is a surplus of PC actions and rarely does a player have to make a hard decision between two actions. The "risk vs reward" does not appropriately reward risky actions since there are "safest" and "best" choices nearly every turn:

Pilot: I roll to Gain The Advantage.
Gunner: I Aim then Shoot.

If you've got a co pilot, they're angling shields and making assist rolls. None of the "Additional Starship and Vehicle Actions" are interesting enough to keep anyone else engaged.

I always try to add a situation, complication, distraction, or a non-attrition goal to keep things interesting (tribbles in the engine room, etc), but there always seems to be at least one player with nothing to do (or at the very least, left only to pick the most mechanically beneficial choice from a list, and even then it isn't needed most of the time).

Reading SWN Command Points, Departments, and Crises systems are immediately more interesting, flavorful, and engaging. Maneuvering seems more abstracted/less engaging than Genesys, and It doesn't look like the system is as exciting for one-pilot fighters. But I need to get to the table with it first to judge that properly.
 
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colgrevance

Registered User
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Then your expectations for and experiences with the game differ from mine - in the Edge of the Empire games I played in (which I equate with Genesys for this purpose), we had a crew of five on a tramp freighter and there always seemed more to do than we could possibly accomplish. We had a co-pilot who doubled as "EW officer" and an engineer who had his hands full keeping the ship in fighting shape, with gunners looking out for new threats and all pcs helping with repairs or hyperscape calculations as needed.

Of course, if you only are a gunner, your action choices are limited, but this is to be expected if you have a specialized role to play on board a starship. And there were enough meaningful choices for the players nonetheless - who should act first, whom to provide with bonus dice, if the actions should focus on defensive or offensive, which enemy to target first etc. I am seriously baffled what more one could wish from a starship combat system, to be honest, if you are not looking for a totally different combat situation altogether.
 

Victim

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Validated User
Then your expectations for and experiences with the game differ from mine - in the Edge of the Empire games I played in (which I equate with Genesys for this purpose), we had a crew of five on a tramp freighter and there always seemed more to do than we could possibly accomplish. We had a co-pilot who doubled as "EW officer" and an engineer who had his hands full keeping the ship in fighting shape, with gunners looking out for new threats and all pcs helping with repairs or hyperscape calculations as needed.

Of course, if you only are a gunner, your action choices are limited, but this is to be expected if you have a specialized role to play on board a starship. And there were enough meaningful choices for the players nonetheless - who should act first, whom to provide with bonus dice, if the actions should focus on defensive or offensive, which enemy to target first etc. I am seriously baffled what more one could wish from a starship combat system, to be honest, if you are not looking for a totally different combat situation altogether.
I have to say, that's not my experience at all. We have 4 PCs and a regular NPC on our tramp freighter, and I play the engineer. I can repair the ship once per fight (for all PCs). I can repair strain an unlimited number of times - but we have to push ship hard in a long fight before running out of strain even once. Typically, I shield boost once and do a repair, with the other actions being pretty marginal most of the time - yeah, I'll take away strain just in case, but it usually doesn't make a difference. And even boosting the shields is often of little import, since those black dice are quite unreliable. The most important action by far is shooting - since repairs are limited, taking down enemies faster is the best return on actions and its where skill matters the most. The more turrets/weapons we have, the more effective we are because the other actions suck. Even the person who wanted to play the pilot often took Fire Discipline to boost our shooting since taking pilot actions rarely mattered. The best non-shooting action we've had was when one of players accidentally used a house ruled action list as a reference instead of an official rulebook one (allowing scan systems to pass advantage

The system in Fragged Empire seems to cover similar ground (emphasizing mostly a single PC ship with crew roles) and just blows it away. Maneuvering the ship matters more, and there are different actions the pilot can take to move the ship. The engineer has more viable seeming actions, with the ability to repair damage/shields with different moves and then another that spends shields to boost other actions. Electronic warfare matters more - we've banked in flight missiles to alpha strike through enemy's repair ability or tried desperately to break an enemy lock before their missiles attacked because ordnance weapons tend to have big attack penalties without locks and huge bonuses with them. Star War's spoof missiles turning an attack from Red+Purple to double Red just doesn't compare. Even gunners have different types of shoot actions. People can switch actions more easily, so there's more potential flex. It's possible to outtank some enemies with a skilled engi, instead of getting back only a finite amount of hull.

Maybe the Star Wars system is better than some other crew roles vehicle systems because there's at least advantage and whatnot on its rolls, but it's still not even adequate as a subsystem IMO.
 
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