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 Birthday: Warhammer Underworlds vs Warcry or...? Help!

Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
So, right now I'm staring down my birthday this week. Its not uncommon for me to get a little spending money from the family or a little something extra in the paycheck from my boss. Which makes me happy.

I've got Shadespire's starter set, played one game and had fun, but Aristeia has sort of stolen my heart. That said, Aristeia's output of new minis has (mercifully) slowed down, and scheduling means I don't get to play as often (even though my copy of the game is being played every week on Twitch/Youtube!). So, I'm looking back at Underworlds again.

But, the new hotness is now Warcry as well. Aristeia has given me a taste for smaller and faster games, as has Company of Iron (the mini version of Warmachine). However, COI isn't as well adapted, I feel, with games taking as long as Warmachine (the cards and casualty rolls contribute to that). Warcry seems to offer what I'm looking for in a skirmish game, at least so far as fantasy goes.

So, this is what I'm looking at:

+ Underworld is fast with the rules made for the format. Its simpler than Warmachine/Company of Iron, but I don't think its as easy as Aristeia.
+ Underworld has a lot of variety in its warbands right now (bad guys, good guys, neat guys, etc), and they're only ~$30 each.
+ Underworld's miniatures are the easy-fit variety, and don't have any customization that I know of (yes, that's a plus for me).
- Underworld has that whole war band exclusive cards + universal card spread out amongst all bit that annoys me.
- Underworld has no campaign mode so far as I know.

+ Warcry is fast looking with the rules made for the format. It looks simpler than Warmachine/Company of Iron which is a big plus.
+ Warcry has a nice variety of custom war bands but lets me use Age of Sigmar minis (which I might be able to buy used/cheap).
+ Warcry does NOT have war band exclusive + universal card thing going on.
+ NO SPECIAL DICE
- So far as I can tell the minis are not easy fit, and might be "normal" minis with a lot of customization options (read as: opportunity costs).
- The war bands are more expensive at $50 each, and are mostly bad, horrible people. This limits who I'm going to play with (ie, not sure if my friends from church will like that theming).
- Overall cost of entry is far higher.

I don't know much about Star Wars Legion or how it fits into things here.
+ Star Wars/scifi!
+ Seems to have a lot of variety now?

Monsterpocolypse seems fun.
+ Kaiju!
+ Looks easy and fast.

Riot Quest is coming out...
+ Fun minis.
+ Looks fast.
+ Minis would be great for PCs for our RPG nights.
- Starting set looks... limited. Looks like I'd need to wait a bit.
- Warmachine compatibility doesn't interest me.

Marvel Crisis Protocol is coming out...
+ Fun looking minis.
+ Superheroes!

Defiance should be going to Kickstarter soon.
+ Its from the team at Corvus Belli that made Aristeia.
+ Minis should be amazing.
- I've never played a dungeon crawler before.
- What to do after I'm done with the campaign?

Fallout Wasteland Warfare
+ Scifi
- Not familiar with the games

But the rest...? Help! Assume I might get to spend as much as $170 on this (cost of the Warcry starter).
  • A game lasting 30-60 minutes is ideal.
  • Smaller table-top footprint appreciated/required.
  • A game that can address multiple players (2-4) is good.
  • Campaign would be a plus.
  • Simple minis (ie, easy to assemble, doesn't overwhelm me with mutually exclusive options, etc) is a HUGE plus.
  • Easier rules appreciated.
 
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Mercurial Sea

Smart Went Crazy
Validated User
I can only really address Warcry here (I have Underworlds, but haven't played it yet).

- So far as I can tell the minis are not easy fit, and might be "normal" minis with a lot of customization options (read as: opportunity costs).
Not really, honestly, tho it kind of depends what warband you're playing. The ones that are exclusive to Warcry are multi-piece (not easy fit) and entirely mono-pose, but a couple have multiple options. Like one of the Legionaries in the Iron Golems can use either two hammers or a bola. One of the complaints about Warcry is actually the relative lack of customizaion.

Warbands that are made up of models from the main Age of Sigmar line will vary. Some are much the same as the Warcry warbands, but I think some of the others let you customize a bit more.

- The war bands are more expensive at $50 each, and are mostly bad, horrible people. This limits who I'm going to play with (ie, not sure if my friends from church will like that theming).
Yeah... so, there are six Chaos warbands--who are all just awful people--and three each from the other Grand Alliances: Order, Death, and Destruction. Death and Destruction are obviously also awful people (well... awful skeletons, goblins, and such), but at least not as overtly in league with demonic forces, lore-wise. For Order, Stormcast eternals are the only real good guys. The two elf factions are... one steals souls and the other worships a god of murder.

Oh, and the price goes up if you play anything but the Chaos warbands (or Bonesplitterz) and want variety. Every other warband draws models from multiple box sets, meaning if you want all the options, you might be looking at over $100. On the plus side, many of the box sets in question let you build two different unit types. Playing non-Chaos warbands is much more viable for someone who already plays AoS or wants to get into it.

Responses in-line below, bolded.

  • A game lasting 30-60 minutes is ideal. 45 minutes is the time to shoot for here, apparently. Obviously longer with a learning curve.
  • Smaller table-top footprint appreciated/required. 22" x 30"
  • A game that can address multiple players (2-4) is good. Core book has rules for 2-, 3-, and 4-player games (tho your footprint goes up to 30" x 44" with more than two people since they suggest two boards.)
  • Campaign would be a plus. Check, tho the campaign mode is a little unusual.
  • Simple minis (ie, easy to assemble, doesn't overwhelm me with mutually exclusive options, etc) is a HUGE plus. I wouldn't call the mutually exclusive options overwhelming. It seems to be 0-2 per warband, and most of the options seem either obviously better/worse OR so close that you can just shrug and go with "rule of cool" for which one you pick.
  • Easier rules appreciated. I find Warcry one of the easier games I've ever gotten into.
I mean, I have nothing but good things to say about Warcry myself, but the $170 price tag nets you the core stuff you need to play, but just the two groups of horrible people to do it with. Adding non-horrible people (or even more horrible people) is... well, Warcry doesn't just have an expensive buy-in, it's expensive to upgrade as well.
 

Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
Yeah, I'm really liking the looks of Warcry and its a great value overall? Its still a lot of money to put down. Even just making the rules free (which isn't a GW thing from what I gather) would help rather than buying a $40 book. So I keep looking and poking at it but finding it hard to pull the trigger.
 

Scutarii

Registered User
Validated User
I don't know answers to all of them but from what I do know...

From what I've seen Shadespire feels more like boardgame+expansions in how it works. Fewer components and less outside work to get the full experience, mostly the additional outside work being the deckbuilding aspect - you could just netdeck both sides and minimise that portion. The way the cards are doled out in different faction packs means you may end up buying stuff for one card...which sucks.

Warcry has more terrain and little additional bits like the wandering monsters so at the very least there would be more construction to do even if you didn't paint all the bits. That may or may not be a plus to you. It would mean you'd need to transport that extra materiel around to a venue to play which may or may nto be an issue for you (it would be for me for example). The 6 Chaos warbands for Warcry are essentially mono-pose, there is some minor customisation (IIRC the Iron Golems has one model that can either have a banner or a weapon and otherwise everything is fixed) but you would likely want/need two copies of the warband box to build a full roster for a campaign. The other 9 warbands vary a lot. Cost is likely to be much higher, even with discount retailers and such.

Personally I was not massively impressed with the Warcry gameplay I saw with the starter box. Moment to moment decisions felt fairly simple and shallow. I know people will tell me about positioning and blocking models ability to move to an objective and because it's a 3 turn game delaying an enemy models movement by forcing them to go around your one model is actually really important but...that's not an (IMO) interesting decision to make. But then I am not personally looking for fast playing simple games - I get one night to wargame per week and it's for 3-4 hours, I'd rather fill those 3-4 hours with as much wargame as I can. What I am saying is what I see as a negative could well be the big thing that excites and draws you in!

Guerilla Miniature Games is a big fan of Monsterpocalypse, has fun cinematic options and combat, seems simple. Slower to play than Warcry and more of a 'movie fight scene whittling each other's health down' style of game rather than a 'quick set up, decisive blow' style. The have a Let's Play of it


No idea about Riot Quest, sorry.

Defiance looks interesting but I don;t know a lot about it. Dungeons Crawlers in my experience tend to have good replay value as players cans witch which heroes they play, level up differently, make custom missions, etc. The spaceship tiles might be useful for other games or making sci-fi maps for RPG nights. The models are all metal I believe or maybe that's just the heroes so unlikely to be simple push-fit plastics. Nowadays I steer clear of 'big box' kickstarter games as personal preference. Cost will probably be high but there's a Kickstarter coming for it which might increase the value for the cost but shipping might be killer.

I'd wait and see on Defiance.

I am excited about the new Marvel game coming in general. Worth checking the upcoming roster of characters and see if they're ones that interest you and your other potential players. If not then maybe wait to see how it looks in a year and if there's a more engaging lineup. Current models planned are...


Fallout...I know nothing.

Other options...Relic Blade might be of interest


It seems like a sort of 'both players have a 6 man D&D party under their control and have come into conflict with each other!'

Edit: their getting started page explicitly says that Relic Blade is designed to tr and bring down as many of the barriers to entry to miniature gaming as it can so their design philosophy may jive with what you're looking for. https://relicblade.com/about

Relicblade is a relatively small sized game. Players aren't required to invest in large armies, and games only take around a half-hour to play. This game is specifically designed to remove the barriers that prevent players, both new and veteran, from being able to enjoy this incredible hobby.
Bushido fits some of the criteria (small play space as it's 24"x24", models don't have options you model on them so no build traps, small amount of terrain needed) but while it can play fast once you're used to it there is a lot of choice and interactions and depth going on for each activation so might not be a fit for what you want. Also stockists in the US seem patchy so it might be UK shipping costs...

Final one I know of is Rumbleslam


Which is fantasy WWE wrestling. Of no interest personally (wrestling was never part of my childhood TV diet...well...greco/catch/freestyle was but that is not this) but I am led to believe it's a much bigger part of USian's culture so could tug your heartstrings more than mine!

Good luck!
 
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Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
I love MonPoc's minis. I've been considering that for a while, and the starting points are pretty reasonable IMO. I'm pretty sure my church friends would love it. My wargaming group? Maybe? Hmm...

Marvel looks good so far.

I know its hard to answer questions on games that aren't out yet, but its like, "I gotta buy or wait :p"
 

BrianDR

Registered User
Validated User
Hmmm...Iooking at Warcry and Underworlds, it might be possible to buy synergistically in a few places:

Zarbag's Gitz for Underworlds is already about 700 points for Warcry (assuming you say that Zarbag himself counts as a Moonclan Boss, which is reasonable). You could fill out the team with a box of squig hoppers, and have access to most of the Warcry options and a have a new Underworlds warband to boot.

Similarly, the Farstriders gives you about 500 points, and you could grab either a gryph hounds or Vanguard raptors box to go with it and have warbands for both games.

Maybe also the Sepulchral guard and Ironskull's Boys packs, but I know less about them.
 

Mercurial Sea

Smart Went Crazy
Validated User
Hmmm...Iooking at Warcry and Underworlds, it might be possible to buy synergistically in a few places:

Zarbag's Gitz for Underworlds is already about 700 points for Warcry (assuming you say that Zarbag himself counts as a Moonclan Boss, which is reasonable). You could fill out the team with a box of squig hoppers, and have access to most of the Warcry options and a have a new Underworlds warband to boot.

Similarly, the Farstriders gives you about 500 points, and you could grab either a gryph hounds or Vanguard raptors box to go with it and have warbands for both games.

Maybe also the Sepulchral guard and Ironskull's Boys packs, but I know less about them.
I've looked into the latter two and they both come close to around 800 if you use the models as the priciest things you can get in Warcry (to wit, Wights and Brutes). Well... technically, the Sepulchral Guard come in closer to 500-600. I counted it higher because I already had a Necromancer model to use (and you'll need one to play Legions of Nagash in Warcry).
 

Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
Yeah, I've been looking at that too. Certainly, getting more into Underworlds would help me get into Warcry (and vise-versa)! Which is appealing - I like minis pulling double duty (see: Warmachine & IKRPG). It'd be more long-term plan I think which is nice. It'd help if GW released Underworlds cards for Warcry warbands.

edit: Hrm... for a little more than the price of Warcry I could get 6 Underworlds warbands... but which ones? Or both MonPoc starters plus at least one more faction...
 
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Crumbs

Registered User
Validated User
If you want the cheapest option shadespire is the way to go. You can buy the cards you want as singles if you look around. Plus you already have it and you know you like it.

Warcry is a great option to full scale age of sigmar but if no one else is into it than you are out a larger investment. The campaign is also not something I would say is an actual campaign.

Monsterpoclypse is also great but again still a decent investment as the game kind of sucks at the one monster count and it is still releasing content so keeping up will be further investment. Also the whole maps thing is balls right now.

Overall thoufh I say if you want a game that is a skirmish game without being a heavy investment and fairly easy to play than Warcry is the way to go.
 

VicenteC

Member
RPGnet Member
Validated User
But the rest...? Help! Assume I might get to spend as much as $170 on this (cost of the Warcry starter).
  • A game lasting 30-60 minutes is ideal.
  • Smaller table-top footprint appreciated/required.
  • A game that can address multiple players (2-4) is good.
  • Campaign would be a plus.
  • Simple minis (ie, easy to assemble, doesn't overwhelm me with mutually exclusive options, etc) is a HUGE plus.
  • Easier rules appreciated.
I would totally recommend you to check Frostgrave, Frostgrave: Archipelago, or Rangers of the Shadow Deep. All three games are based on the same system, they are simple yet deep, fast, and they don't lock you into any concrete miniatures (although the game has its own range of miniatures, much cheaper than GW stuff. I use my reaper bones for them).

In all three games you build your own warband, centered around a powerful wizard/hero/ranger, usually one powerful sidekick, and a bunch of minions. Then you play skirmishes between warbands, and the game totally supports single skirmishes, or ongoing campaigns with rules for injuries, experience, magic items, neutral creeps...

Frostgrave and Blood Archipelago are player vs player (with a few coop scenarios), Rangers of the Shadow Deep is coop against an AI opponent that follows a set of rules.

All three games pretty much hit all the points on your list (maybe time could extend sometimes to 90 minutes, but games are objective based and they go fast).

This is the game website in Osprey:


The official minis from North Star (several distributors carry them in the US):


The facebook groups for the games, Joseph (the creator) is incredibly active on them:

 
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