Castles&crusades. Questions

[Ivan Sorensen]

While Im waiting on my copy of Castles&Crusades, I;ve been reading eagerly what seems like a PDF "lite" version. A friend sent it to me, and it seems like a typical preview (only 4 classes, 32 pages total) but I haven't able to find it on the company's website, so Im not aware if its legit or not. Any information on that would be great.


The question however is, based on that, Im not sure exactly how the thief skills work. Couldn't anyone attempt to pick a lock or sneak, by rolling a Dex roll ? What advantages do the thief get in these endeavours ?

 

[Melkor]

The rules state that it is recommended that the Castle Keeper prohibit the use of Class (or Race) abilities by characters who do not possess said Class (or Race) ability.

If the Castle Keeper allows the use of one of these abilities by a character who does not possess the ability, then the character does NOT add his level to the check (whereas someone with the ability would get to add his level to the check).

Hope that helps.

 

[baran_i_kanu]

as Melkor said.

plus the DM could add a difficulty to the target number for attempting to pick the lock without tools, etc. i would prob add a penalty of 5 or so if the nonthief character has never picked a lock before and prob another 5 to 10 if the character has never SEEN a lock before.

the target number would be 12 if Dex is a prime and 18 if it is not a prime.

 

[jamesh]

The question however is, based on that, Im not sure exactly how the thief skills work. Couldn't anyone attempt to pick a lock or sneak, by rolling a Dex roll ? What advantages do the thief get in these endeavours ?

C&C handles this in two ways, the most basic of which is outlined by Melkor. The other is via adjustments added to a base of 12 (for prime attribtues) or 18 (for all other attributes), with the player having to roll higher than the adjusted Challenge Rating on 1d20 (or in my house-ruled variant, 2d10). I personally use both methods in conjunction with one another and only when allowing a non-classed character to attempt something makes sense (e.g., hiding).

Personally, I think that this is a vast improvement over the days when only thieves could climb ropes or hide in shadows. Pretty much anybody in real life has some chance of doing these things successfully, so I don't know why heroes wouldn't (they may not be able to do so as easily as a thief, but IMHO they should still have a chance, provided that basic logic has some place in the campaign).

 

[Ivan Sorensen]

yeah, I forgot about the level bit. I guess at low levels its less an edge for the thief. I was always a big fan of, in AD&D, to let thieves get away with stuff noone else could. Like fade in a shadowy corner, or sneak, with a big bag of loot.

That, to me, was always what thief skills were all about. Any guy can try to hide in a tree.

 

[Melkor]

Personally, I think that this is a vast improvement over the days when only thieves could climb ropes or hide in shadows. Pretty much anybody in real life has some chance of doing these things successfully, so I don't know why heroes wouldn't (they may not be able to do so as easily as a thief, but IMHO they should still have a chance, provided that basic logic has some place in the campaign).

During the playtest, I fought long and hard to get some alternative put in the C&C rules to: "It's not one of the character's class or race skills, so he simply cannot attempt it." that some were pushing for. It was really an intense effort on my part - with hours and hours of typing posts and gnashing teeth, but I think it paid off in the end.

I was glad that some mechanic was introduced to handle it.

Thing is, you can't play C&C like modern D&D 3rd Edition, calling for 'Spot' and 'Listen' type checks every 10 minutes....It's not made to work that way, and even with Prime Attributes, percent chances of success are relative low for starting characters (I made an extensive spreadsheet detailing out percent chances of success for characters from levels 1 through 20 based on Prime and Secondary ability scores with and without level figured in).

 

[Ivan Sorensen]

That was one thing I noticed. Unless rolling against a prime, or high level, you're going to fail a bunch of rolls, arent you ?

I guess it bears to only roll for important stuff

 

[Melkor]

That was one thing I noticed. Unless rolling against a prime, or high level, you're going to fail a bunch of rolls, arent you ?

I guess it bears to only roll for important stuff

Exactly.

With the Seige Engine mechanic, you really have to take a different approach to running the game (especially at lower levels).

You have to think of it as 'how did I do this back in AD&D before I had rules for every little action' and take a more narrative and decisive role as Castle Keeper.

I've found that doing it that way tends to also make the game feel more like it did back in the early 80's when I started playing, and trying to play it like it's D&D 3.5/D20 tends to make it 'break down'. Again, especially at lower levels.

 

[Ivan Sorensen]

Im used to running AD&D1 without skills, so I figure the same ideas will work here then

 

[FASERIP]

It should be noted that a lot of C&C groups do away with the base 12/18 DCs and just use a +6 for primes.

This is handy if you write up DCs ahead of them, or if you choose to make 'em up on the fly (easier to judge the probabilities.)