Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer & why?

daddystabz

New member
Banned
I am a huge fan of Castles & Crusades and own the game. Lamentations of the Flame Princess has intrigued me a bit as well, though I'm not generally a fan of race as class for elves, halflings, etc.

Which of these 2 games do you prefer and why?
 

Eisenmann

10th Level ADD Gamer
Validated User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

I can't choose since I really like 'em both. Since you already own C&C I'll talk a little about LotFP. It does the dark, cold, and dirt under your fingernails style of fantasy very well. I really like how it handles skills. It's meaningful but less powerful than Primes in C&C. The encumbrance system is genius and I use with all of my old school games.
 

smarttman

I do some stuff
Validated User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

I do like C&C more, but they both have their qualities. If you want more pulpy fantasy in the vein of Conan, use Fire Princess. If you want the more traditional D&D power level, then use C&C.
 

smathis

Retired User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

There are 3 things I really like about LotFP...

1) The pip-based skill system. Although it really only applies to one class (the Specialist).

2) The encumbrance system. Elegant. Hands down the best in breed here.

3) The atmosphere of pulp-weird-fantasy. Much of which is conveyed in flavor, spell descriptions and DM advice.


Beyond those three things, I think C&C is a better game. There are issues with LotFP, especially in terms of how "meh" character advancement is, IME. And then there's the notion that #2 in that list of "really likes" is the only one that would require any sort of "port" from one system to the other. C&C has a decent "skill" system already with the SIEGE engine.

And #3 is easily achieved by reading the narrator advice in LotFP, limiting the max character levels to around 8 or 10 and making use of Raggi's Esoteric Monster Generator. Possibly substituting LotFP's spell list for C&C's.

What I love about LotFP has nothing to do with the extremely barebones system in there. For it to be truly enjoyable to me, I'd have to use my favorite parts of it grated on to another D&D facsimile that needed them. Like some hulking flesh golem of a retroclone climbing out of the darkest reaches of the OGL.

Fortunately, that is easy enough to do because the really genius bits of LotFP are modular enough that they can be used and abused in C&C, S&W or even BECMI.
 

SteamPulp

Old School Radical
Validated User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

I have really tried to like C&C. I have bought every printing of the books and I have sold/traded off every printing of the book. While C&C is an amazing game and lets you play AD&D with modern rule, it lacks in effort. While the rules are playable and the art is awesome, I just cannot get past that in four printings it is still a nightmare in editing, layout and typos. I will always be up for playing it, but alas it no longer sits on my shelf.

With that said I am going to say the LotFP is an amazing take on basic D&D. The layout, art, and writing are done with passion and pride. James Raggi is not a boring author and the writing just screams "Play me"! The dice pip system for skills is easy to pick up and stays true to older design principals, encumbrance is well done (and I have stolen it to use in other games I play), and I love the progression for the classes... The fact that the fighter is the only class to bet better at fighting makes perfect sense. It prevents the Cleric and the Magic user from becoming murder-hobos at higher levels and allows them to concentrate on their role in the party.

My 2 Centavos
 

Doctor Futurity

Camazotz the Death Bat
Validated User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

Do what i do: use the C&C rules with LotFP as inspirational material/reference for weird dark fantasy. That said, both are loads of fun, and although I wouldn't run LotFP as I prefer the C&C rules, I really enjoyed reading it and found it quite inspirational.
 

Melire

Retired User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

While the rules are playable and the art is awesome, I just cannot get past that in four printings it is still a nightmare in editing, layout and typos. I will always be up for playing it, but alas it no longer sits on my shelf.

My 2 Centavos
I must be a horrible judge of editing, layout, and typos because I think the 4th printing is fantastic. Then again, I think only the first printing qualifies as a "nightmare", the rest were progressively better. With the 4th printing capable of standing up to any other RPG out there in terms of editing, layout, and typos/errors.

Just my 2 centavos.

As for the OP question, I have never checked out Flame Princess, but now I am thinking maybe I should. On the other hand there are dozens of other sources of ideas I have yet to tap into, and already own, so buying yet another one probably isn't wise.
 

Mark Krawec

waiter waiter percolator
Validated User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

Can't say as I prefer one over the other, as they're radically different in tone. C&C is heroic adventure in a fantastic pseudo Middle Ages; LotFP is a filth-clotted struggle for survival in a godsforsaken pseudo Enlightenment where the universe actively hates you.

ETA: By which I guess I mean to say they do very different things well & your preference will depend on the feel you're after.
 
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PrinceRemote

Prince of Reme
Validated User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

I am a fan of both, but having to choose, C&C wins out. LotFP has all of the grit and the dripping essence of a setting. C&C is only a rules set. If only by rules we compare, C&C takes the prize. LotFP has the simple and elegant skills, and cool encumbrance, while C&C is a tried and true system that just works well in just about everything it does. I can always add the gritty to my C&C games. All of that being said, the cooler aspects of LotFP can always be added to C&C with little to worry about.
 
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mediapig

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which do you prefer &

I haven't read LotFP, but I tend to dislike race as class, to the point that it's pretty much a deal breaker for me. Also, I have to agree, C&C may have it's share of typos, but overall I think the 4th printing books are very nice. I love the Peter Bradley art. And, of all the D20 games, I feel C&C most allows me a "Conan" sword and sorcery feel, especially with feats and other optional rules.

LotFP does look sweet though, and it seems like a really cool game.
 
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