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Classless d20 - thoughts?

#1
So, I wandered by this thread while running some searches earlier, and it got me thinking. How do people feel about a classless d20? Does anyone want it? Or do people perfer the current version?

Because honeestly, getting rid of character classes isn't that hard. I got the basics down in about one page. It certainly needs some work (some of which I've got done but didn't post due to lack of interest) but its pretty good.

BUT, as somebody who is designing a game, I have mixed feelings about going classless. I really like a character creation method that says "here are three categories, choose one option from each and you're ready to play." As a designer, it makes so many things easier.

As a GM, I like classes because it makes it easy for me to know roughly what everyone is doing, get the basics of the NPCs with a glance, et cetera.

My big problem with the class system is that its poorly implemented in D&D 3e. It doesn't actually simplify character creation. In fact, it makes certain things more complicated. Apart from nostalgia and game balance, I see no reason to use classes in d20. (granted, those are pretty big factors, especially for D&D.)

As a player, its sometimes nice to have the freedom to design your own character. But even then, it doesn't really bother me. I'm happy with a relatively standard set of schticks. I'm sure others disagree with me, but that's not my main question

My main questions

A) who wants classless d20? Anyone?

B) How much can it change from normal d20? Does it have to be perfectly balanced to the old system?

-Mei
 

Kiero

Retiring User
Validated User
#2
I'd be more inclined to like d20 if you dropped levels, classes, tactical combat, Feats, simplified Skills - well made it into something that it isn't, and is not designed to be.
 
#3
Kiero said:
I'd be more inclined to like d20 if you dropped levels, classes, tactical combat, Feats, simplified Skills - well made it into something that it isn't, and is not designed to be.
Well, then I won't be selling any books to you anytime soon, will I? :p

-Mei
 

Fabius Maximus

Registered User
Validated User
#5
The biggest issue is how compatiable do you want it to be with other D20 material. Much of core D20 uses classes as a way to limit each character so they need the rest of the party-- with classless you may either get a number of generalists, or a "Johnny one shot" who is incredibly good at one thing.

If you intend the product to stand on its own-- and not be a general product, that last is not too difficult-- because you aren't worried about it. If not, then you have to work harder to balance the classles system v. the classes.

one point to remember-- if you do this, be certain to let people know about it in a way that doesn't require them to buy the book, so they don' feel burned.
 

MikeJW

Retired User
#6
Classes and levels are things that are preventing me from playing D20 Modern, so yeah. Go for it. Screw balance. Just so long as if I want to make a Special Forces sergeant it doesnt look like, Fast2/strong3/soldier3/lefthandednightstoreclerk4/unicyclist1/acrobat2/....you get the idea.
 

LoneWolf23

Registered User
Validated User
#7
Pyramid Magazine has an article called
"Classless, Leveless, Universal D20 Gaming Environment", (or CLUDGE), created by Owen K.C. Stephens. It's essentially a system for retooling d20 into a point-buy system, allowing for players to create a wide variety of characters by purchasing character skills, feats and special abilities with character points, the number of which are defined by the character's Power Rank, which replaces the Character Level.
 

Sprue Rubbles

makes rubbles from sprues
#8
I love classes but I don't like levels and hit points. But then again I love AD&D with stuff like Paladins, Illusionists, Monks and whatever. I feel that there is enough room within a class to make it your own.
 
#9
MeiRen said:
A) who wants classless d20? Anyone?

B) How much can it change from normal d20? Does it have to be perfectly balanced to the old system?

-Mei
A) Yes, yes we do.

I personally love the system, but hate the classes, and would be glad to be rid of 'em. I don't want to play a Fighter, I want to play a ruddy lone swordsman who's spent his life wandering and has the odd skill t actually back it up without being clueless (ie: "I didn't hear that thing sneaking up on me"), damn it!


B) Simple answer?

It doesn't matter how much you change it. Toss out everything from all the other versions. It'd be nice to have something which I can take to any GM I meet and say "Hey, does this seem balanced instead of a Fighter 3?", but if not, cool.

Just make it fair. If a character is going to be a powerful wizard, make damned sure that a skilled rogue can do his job without being overshadowed in every way. If things are fair, nobody complains. :p
 
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