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Critical Role Campaign 2 - D&D, nerdy-ass voice actors and Wild(mount) Times

xWillxPx

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Watching it now, and... I'm not so sure.

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In just the round I'm on, the greater demon blows his two grapple chances, Caleb's Cat's Paw was just 2 away - a roll of 14 or higher would have brought the demon down - and Ashley could have got a natural 20 on her deception check to call him down. At the start of that round, the summoner has risen higher, and the honest thought I had at that point was "Matt just remembered how far Counterspells reach" - which also could have potentially changed things.
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A 5% chance is basically impossible, but saying there is a chance. More so : "The greater demon only gets bite and claw attacks, not grapple. Ok, but it's no damage. And you only get 2 chances not 3, because falling" "Roll an acrobatics check to use your monk features" "Are you rolling saves at advantage? Right, my character wouldn't know that". "If you want to snag the tablet from his hand, that's a way higher AC (said after everyone has failed to connect with an attack) and you're not proficient with that weapon" (or I'll tell you that won't work, unlike how you wasted a spell slot without warning last round)

I'll add, starting the combat with stealing Laura's turn based on the player misreading things the character is likely to understand, made everything I just mentioned highlighted for me: the klaxon in my noggin was going wee woo from the start, i.e. saying it was hard to watch.

Was it possible? Sure. Was the deck stacked so heavily that it makes one thousand percent more sense to skip to the end? I'm also pretty darn sure. (even more so, if even stopping Oban wouldn't change the outcome)

Heck, from an encounter design perspective, put Oban and the sarcophagus far enough into the room to start that the MN can almost get there in time (or so far back towards the entrance that it's clear who let them in, but without time to stop them) throw in some obstacles like lava and/or a cultist or a low level demon or four* to thwart dimension door/step of the wind - - all the drama of "we almost stopped this" without smacking your players hands away from the cookies so much.

BUT that's just like my opinion, as i said the ends totes justified how we got there, for me - but I did require an extra biscuit during my mid-show snack.


*bonus carnage when all those foolish cultists/demons are blown to bits by the summoned.
 

junglefowl26

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There were moments in episode 69 where I was very upset. For example, I will never believe without seeing Matt's notes, that the MN could do anything in that encounter before the break. That sarcophagus was going to be opened, full stop - and it was hard to watch.

But then the end, the scene with the party arguing in the sand about what comes next: picturing Caduceus pink hair whipping in the wind, Jester being both kinds of blue asking "what was the point of any of this?", Caleb and Fjord grasping for control and stumbling. The complete opposite of hard to watch, the sort of sequence that reminds why CR is special.

Finally, Matt and Yasha, using Ashley's absence once again to turn the emotionality up past nein. Ending, with the art crawl, and last week's fan art of the week as the top image: DoppleYasha red eyes blazing, wickedly pullin' Yasha through the glass . . . a piece that suddenly had new sad sad meaning.

Is it next Thursday yet?
Yeah - I mean, if some of the stuff they had tried had worked it would have given them a chance to stop him, but since he only needed two rounds of actions and had hp to burn it does seem like the Mighty Nein preventing this was unlikely (at least at this point. Arguably, several decisions could have stopped Oban from getting anywhere near the tomb, but hindsight is 20/20)

Personally, reminds me of the climax of a campaign I was in. I can't remember all the details, but we basically had three rounds to deactivate through a long and difficult process a well guarded machine before it summoned not!Cthullu, and we felt we had pretty much no chance to pull it off. We did by a miracle, and in the most cinematic dice roll in history we managed to stop the countdown at the very last round of the last turn that it was possible to do so and we were thrilled (oh, and spent an action surge to finish off the wounded big bad as he went into his "this cannot be!" breakdown to boot).
The DM later admitted he had intended for us to fail and he had this whole boss fight against not!Cthullu planned out where the party was riding our ancient gold dragon ally being dropped off to attack its weak spots and whatnot, and he was kind of disappointed he didn't get to do that but had to admit the way it had gone down had been absurdly and beautifully cinematic and we were on the edge of our seat the whole time.

*screams externally*
That is the appropriate response, yes

I thought Blindspot's next season was its final one?

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Oh, does anyone know where Matt got his "Laughing Hand"? Is it a creature in a book, or Matt's own fevered imagination?
It is, and a shorter one so Ashley should be back sooner than usual.

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Apparently, the Laughing Hand originated in a nightmare Matt had. The stats are his work and he had the mini custom made apparently.
 

Phantom Stranger

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Was it possible? Sure. Was the deck stacked so heavily that it makes one thousand percent more sense to skip to the end? I'm also pretty darn sure. (even more so, if even stopping Oban wouldn't change the outcome)
You and I have very different opinions about 'basically impossible' especially in a game where 11 nat20s in a night have happened multiple times, and very different opinions about the phrasing of your original assertion.

And those opinions being so different, I'll leave that there rather than frustrate us both.
 

Rel Fexive

Terrifying Space Monkey
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My sense was that Matt had an idea for how it would go, but as usual left open the possibility of it not going that way and would have rolled with it the group had stopped Oban.

I suspect that the back up plan would have been for Yasha to take the tablet and try to complete the ritual, but even that could have been stopped.

As usual for these sort of things, was the lack of an answer for why Oban hadn't already completed the ritual by the time the M9 arrived. I'm guessing that the M9 was right, and that he had needed them to open the path for him, and had been following along invisibly or something the whole time.
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The fact that Oban clearly followed them into the final chamber strongly suggests he used them to clear the way for him.
 

junglefowl26

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Anyone else find it a bit funny that trying to sneak past the bridge over the river of flesh was so difficult and dangerous, but just bolting across real fast making a racket actually worked out well?

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The fact that Oban clearly followed them into the final chamber strongly suggests he used them to clear the way for him.
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I don't think that makes much sense.

For one, he was clearly surprised by them showing up and by them following him. Even in the final confrontation he was confused about who they were and what they were doing. Thus I think it can be assumed they were not part of his original plan and he was going to make it through on his own.

Then there is the fact that the Mighty Nein did not, in fact, clear out any defenses except the spider and the roper - the invisible stalker was still in the well, the well doors shut behind them, the zombie room reset, and they got past the long bridge over the river of flesh but didn't even remotely harm said river.

Finally, they found his footprints up to the last angel door in the mirror, so clearly he made it most of the way ahead of them. I guess he did get stuck at the last door for some reason, but I don't think following them was his plan.
 

Rel Fexive

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Anyone else find it a bit funny that trying to sneak past the bridge over the river of flesh was so difficult and dangerous, but just bolting across real fast making a racket actually worked out well?


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I don't think that makes much sense.

For one, he was clearly surprised by them showing up and by them following him. Even in the final confrontation he was confused about who they were and what they were doing. Thus I think it can be assumed they were not part of his original plan and he was going to make it through on his own.

Then there is the fact that the Mighty Nein did not, in fact, clear out any defenses except the spider and the roper - the invisible stalker was still in the well, the well doors shut behind them, the zombie room reset, and they got past the long bridge over the river of flesh but didn't even remotely harm said river.

Finally, they found his footprints up to the last angel door in the mirror, so clearly he made it most of the way ahead of them. I guess he did get stuck at the last door for some reason, but I don't think following them was his plan.
I think running back across the bridge only worked so well because they knew exactly how far they had to go that time. Though it could've gone just as well if they did it that way the first time too, if they'd been willing to risk it.

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They may not have been part of his initial plan but he got some use of them, if only for bringing him the Orphan-Maker. I don't think he got past the "glacier door" himself or acquired the knife to open the inner door either, or he would've been in there finishing the incantation when they arrived, so they were useful for that too. As for his "confusion", that was just him asking the Nein the same questions they had already been asking - why were they there?

I suspect a fiend would not have been able to hear the tune hummed by the angel statues due to them being celestial in nature, but that's just my theory. It made the Nein useful again too. That and resolving the mirror room - maybe that only works for mortals with souls or something.
 

Manitou

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Any of those plans would have worked with better dice luck.

The dice just really hate them today.

Yeah,I think Laura not knowing that "humanoid" is a creature type the game uses makes some sense. Only three spells that I am aware of target humanoids instead of creatures in geneeral, and that is a tradition carried over from previous editions[the charm, hold, and dominate person spells , vs the higher level spells charm, hold, and dominate monster]. I could totally see Jester not understanding that either.

Perhaps they can cover creature types on a Handbooker Helper.

I could totally see MN stopping Oban's spell, they just needed to prepare the silence spell. Which would have also helped with their crossings of the flesh river.


Anyone else find it a bit funny that trying to sneak past the bridge over the river of flesh was so difficult and dangerous, but just bolting across real fast making a racket actually worked out well?
The thing that made it so hard the first time was arguably the Roper on the ceiling.
 
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xWillxPx

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they just needed to prepare the silence spell. Which would have also helped with their crossings of the flesh river.
I have a sense Caduceus (at the least) will be packing silence in his kit from now on. They have seen the enemy, and it's weapon is sound.

Oh gosh, could calm emotions have freed Yasha?

Having played a 5e cleric, picking your spells each rest sounds rad - - - till you realise you didn't take the one.
 

junglefowl26

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Some random thoughts:
-Interesting thing about Yasha's flashback at the end is that it sounds like she and Oban were genuinely friends. And given some of the other things said about this little cult about being a home for the lost and unwanted...they kind of seem like an evil version of the Mighty Nein.
-Also, I have seen some interesting discussions about how odd it was that the circus Yasha and Molly were a part of had two amnesiac cultists in it, a play referencing Ukatoa and his siblings, a Xorhashian fiend, and an owner who seems oddly guilty and willing to be punished....
-And on that note, Lucian's group broke off from a larger cult. Would it be too neat to have that older, larger cult be the angel of irons group?
-If so, then it would be really too neat and tidy to have blondie be a Jagentoth (the family that the Iron Sheperds worked for, and who were helping Ativanka find the cloven crystals)
-Cad wants to go to the Greying Wildlands, and they are pretty close to the north shore looking at the map, but I don't remember any ships or ports being mentioned.


I think running back across the bridge only worked so well because they knew exactly how far they had to go that time. Though it could've gone just as well if they did it that way the first time too, if they'd been willing to risk it.
Good points.

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They may not have been part of his initial plan but he got some use of them, if only for bringing him the Orphan-Maker. I don't think he got past the "glacier door" himself or acquired the knife to open the inner door either, or he would've been in there finishing the incantation when they arrived, so they were useful for that too. As for his "confusion", that was just him asking the Nein the same questions they had already been asking - why were they there?

I suspect a fiend would not have been able to hear the tune hummed by the angel statues due to them being celestial in nature, but that's just my theory. It made the Nein useful again too. That and resolving the mirror room - maybe that only works for mortals with souls or something.
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Oh sure, I think they got through the last door before him and he took the opportunity when he could, but I think he made it up to that door before they did.

As for the obstacles stopping him because of his fiendish nature...possibly, though he is part of a whole organization with members from all over, so I think he or at least someone else in the group could have gotten through eventually.

I guess I just don't like some takes I have seen online that this is all the M9's fault and that they shouldn't have gone. If they didn't chase Oban, I bet he and the Laughing Hand would still have been threats at a later date, like how in the last campaign Vox Machina didn't follow up on the Chroma Conclave after Brimscythe, or the Vecna cult after overthrowing the Briarwoods, allowing those villains to strike at full power


Yeah,I think Laura not knowing that "humanoid" is a creature type the game uses makes some sense. Only three spells that I am aware of target humanoids instead of creatures in geneeral, and that is a tradition carried over from previous editions[the charm, hold, and dominate person spells , vs the higher level spells charm, hold, and dominate monster]. I could totally see Jester not understanding that either.

Perhaps they can cover creature types on a Handbooker Helper.

I could totally see MN stopping Oban's spell, they just needed to prepare the silence spell. Which would have also helped with their crossings of the flesh river.
Very true.

Though the silence spell wouldn't cover the whole chamber so Oban would only need to move out of it. Still, even forcing him down lower would have been helpful.


The thing that made it so hard the first time was arguably the Roper on the ceiling.
He only showed up a little bit at the end though.

...though come to think of it, Frumpkin didn't trigger anything flying around and Oban could fly....
 

Manitou

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Well my thoughts with the silence spell for Oban, would be to have someone fly up with silence on them, which would require Matt agree to it being cast on a person or object instead of a location. and the flyer being Yasha or Beaux. So they could chase him around and hit him down.
If the silence spell is stuck still use it where he is and then send a flying yasha or beaux to chase him around.
 
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