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Crusader Kings 2 II: Title Revoked

junglefowl26

Registered User
Validated User
The Raja whose title I usurped, and who is now only a mere Thakur, and who hates me with a passion because of points A and B, was only 18 when I seized his throne for myself. And his betrothed was not yet of age, so he has no children. And all of his closest dynastic kinsmen belong to the ruling dynasty of the Raj next door.

So If he dies before he spawns an heir, the ruling dynasty of the Raj next door will inherit his county and I will lose it.

As you might imagine, EVERYBODY in the Raj next door wants this guy dead.

Thus, in a spate of irony, I am now doing everything I can to keep my former liege alive long enough to spawn an heir. I immediately released him from prison as soon as the war ended, and I've already ended two plots within my own court and one plot outside of it (had to bribe the person to get her to end the plot, but end it she did). I'm also turning on my full diplomatic charm in his direction to see if I can turn his frown upside down so he'll behave himself.
No that is some grade A politics, and sounds like it could the premise for all kinds of fascinating stories or games.
 

Radio Free Ruritania

WWSWLiHND?
Validated User
The Raja whose title I usurped, and who is now only a mere Thakur, and who hates me with a passion because of points A and B, was only 18 when I seized his throne for myself. And his betrothed was not yet of age, so he has no children. And all of his closest dynastic kinsmen belong to the ruling dynasty of the Raj next door.

So If he dies before he spawns an heir, the ruling dynasty of the Raj next door will inherit his county and I will lose it.

As you might imagine, EVERYBODY in the Raj next door wants this guy dead.

Thus, in a spate of irony, I am now doing everything I can to keep my former liege alive long enough to spawn an heir. I immediately released him from prison as soon as the war ended, and I've already ended two plots within my own court and one plot outside of it (had to bribe the person to get her to end the plot, but end it she did). I'm also turning on my full diplomatic charm in his direction to see if I can turn his frown upside down so he'll behave himself.
Can you offer him some concubines to increase the heir chances?
 

Afterburner

Remarkably expressive bandages
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Welp, the revolt ended inconclusively when my liege (the dude they were all revolting against) got kilt in a duel. However, due to Reasons(tm) I don't fully understand, the kingdom remained divided. Two kingdoms of roughly equal size where one had been before. Literally three days later, the leader of the new kingdom died, leaving a 1-year-old on the throne.

Did I mention that the 1-year-old leader held the two remaining counties I needed to complete my de jure collection?

And as it turns out, you can just...declare war for a whole Duchy. And when I checked his levy size, he had like 311 total soldiers.

22863


22864

I'm feeling pretty good about this game at the moment!
 
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Giel M

Cheers!
RPGnet Member
Validated User
So, is there a de jure kingdom you're part of? Or should you just forge your own? Do you HAVE a liege lord at this moment, and what's between you and his job?
 

StreetBushido

Registered User
Validated User
Welp, the revolt ended inconclusively when my liege (the dude they were all revolting against) got kilt in a duel. However, due to Reasons(tm) I don't fully understand, the kingdom remained divided. Two kingdoms of roughly equal size where one had been before. Literally three days later, the leader of the new kingdom died, leaving a 1-year-old on the throne.

Did I mention that the 1-year-old leader held the two remaining counties I needed to completely my de jure collection?

And as it turns out, you can just...declare war for a whole Duchy. And when I checked his levy size, he had like 311 total soldiers.

View attachment 22863


View attachment 22864

I'm feeling pretty good about this game at the moment!
Nicely done! Keep that realm growing! Depending on the technologies you've managed to unlock/research you may want to consider moving your capital to a county with more holdings.

I mention technologies because the stuff you've unlocked is locked to your capital and spreads from there to neighbouring counties, and also to non-neighbouring counties within your personal demesne. That's a problem I have in my Haesteinn game: my capital is pretty far ahead of the global tech curve, but it's got a fairly low amount of holdings. I'd like to move my capital to a larger (more holding-rich) county, but then I'd lose decades of technological progress.

Also, while I'm at it I'd like to share a few thoughts on how to organize your personal demesne. In my current game I've spread out my personal demesne quite a bit: I've got counties in France, England and Britanny, with one duchy in Britanny and one in England. I aim for counties with many holdings so that I can directly get as much income as possible.

However, by doing this some vassals will get annoyed at me: dukes want the counties that I hold within their duchies. Counts want the duchies I hold. Viceroys want the duchies! So I've been thinking about Britanny and how it offers a fairly unique opportunity: I could quite reasonably hold all of the counties in Britanny (9) as my personal demesne as well as its duchies (3) and the kingdom itself. All other titles in my realm could then be handed off to Viceroys. My vassals' only complaint would be that I would have one duchy too many (a -10 opinion malus).

Good idea? Or bad?

And on an unrelated note I would like to share a story about a scottish prince that found Odin. In an earlier post I wrote about about the heir of Scotland and how he ended up in my dungeons. I'm not sure how as I don't really bother with raiding up there. Regardless, in an effort to preserve some bloodline or other I sent him off to become a consort of a woman in my court. He had converted to the reformed Germanic faith at this point. I think he sired a child or two before his father died. At that time I already owned the Kingdom of Scotland, so instead of inheriting that he only got a duchy. Still, he liked me and so he agreed to peacefully become my vassal: I was his de jure liege and we shared the same religion.

Time passed and the Jomsvikings decided to leave my service (I had previously vassalized them). And what's this? Their leader was none other than that scottish prince! He had renounced his throne and become a holy warrior in the name of Odin! A bribe later and he agreed to let me re-vassalize the Jomsvikings. I think Guy Gavriel Kay has written a story similar to this...
 

Li of Orchid

you will explode.
Validated User
Also, while I'm at it I'd like to share a few thoughts on how to organize your personal demesne. In my current game I've spread out my personal demesne quite a bit: I've got counties in France, England and Britanny, with one duchy in Britanny and one in England. I aim for counties with many holdings so that I can directly get as much income as possible.

However, by doing this some vassals will get annoyed at me: dukes want the counties that I hold within their duchies. Counts want the duchies I hold. Viceroys want the duchies! So I've been thinking about Britanny and how it offers a fairly unique opportunity: I could quite reasonably hold all of the counties in Britanny (9) as my personal demesne as well as its duchies (3) and the kingdom itself. All other titles in my realm could then be handed off to Viceroys. My vassals' only complaint would be that I would have one duchy too many (a -10 opinion malus).

Good idea? Or bad?
I tend to think a geographically contiguous demense is advantageous mostly so that you can raise and concentrate your personal levies quickly in the event of a major revolt. If you're planning to just hold all of Brittany personally, just destroy the extra duchies. The only de jure vassals who will be unhappy are barons and who gives a damn what they think? ;) I actually kind of prefer to hold only one duchy now so that if a situation comes up where a duchy reverts to me due to a dynasty dying out, I can afford to hold onto it for a little while without additional vassal opinion malus, while I look for the right person to take it over.
 

Skycroft

Space Wizard
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Validated User
You get a bonus to levy size in your capital duchy and capital county (25% and 50% if indiependent, and 15% and 25% if you are not), and do not recieve a levy penalty for going above your limit (though you do recieve an income penalty, so you still want to avoid that). This combined with the ease of combining all your troops makes means you'll have a larger army if you have the same number of holdings concentrated into a single duchy.

In addition, every holding in your capital county will receive the benefits of your steward's and marshal's missions.

So the ideal is really to hold only a single duchy, have as many castles in that duchy as possible, and hold all of them. You can hold up to two duchies without opinion penalties, but I try to pare down over time.

But this is an ideal end state, so what I do is use the income from widespread holdings to improve my capital ones, slowly over time build more castles and hand out non-capital holdings, and pare down my demesne until it consists of the one duchy. This process can take generations, but it is worth it eventually. Having a strong capital is immensely useful, when my personal troops alone can put down even major revolts and I suffer no opinion problems. It addition, it seriously helps with managing gavelkind.

You can get more holding slots through events and such. Takes time, money, and luck though. I try to switch to a good capital as early on in my playthrough as possible, and only then push tech. But it's not worth losing too much tech progress. I'd rather have two excellent well-developed holdings in a high tech province than four barebones holdings in a worse one.
 
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totenblume

Registered User
Validated User
How much coverage do we give to the Game of Thrones mod here? Because christ, I have never seen such an absolutely insane crackfic premise generator. In my current game alone, we have:

-Joffrey randomly selects Balon Greyjoy, of all people, as his champion in trial by combat, and Balon gets killed by some random knight he was putting on trial.
-Arianne Martell marries Robb Stark, who contracts cancer a few months later. (He's doing surprisingly okay, but wow.)
-Pycelle, as Joffrey's regent, appoints Meryn Trant Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.
-Stannis wrote the letter decrying Cersei's children as bastards, and then proceeded to do nothing and just serve as a loyal vassal.
-Joffrey and Podrick Payne became best friends.
-The Night's Watch and wildlings both had to deal with a sudden epidemic of 'pox', while the Old Bear went into hiding because apparently there were assassination attempts.
 

Li of Orchid

you will explode.
Validated User
How much coverage do we give to the Game of Thrones mod here? Because christ, I have never seen such an absolutely insane crackfic premise generator. In my current game alone, we have:

-Joffrey randomly selects Balon Greyjoy, of all people, as his champion in trial by combat, and Balon gets killed by some random knight he was putting on trial.
-Arianne Martell marries Robb Stark, who contracts cancer a few months later. (He's doing surprisingly okay, but wow.)
-Pycelle, as Joffrey's regent, appoints Meryn Trant Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.
-Stannis wrote the letter decrying Cersei's children as bastards, and then proceeded to do nothing and just serve as a loyal vassal.
-Joffrey and Podrick Payne became best friends.
-The Night's Watch and wildlings both had to deal with a sudden epidemic of 'pox', while the Old Bear went into hiding because apparently there were assassination attempts.
I've played a few games of it and yeah, it's fun and ridiculous in that way. My first game was as Dany, went straight back to Westeros after hatching her dragons, married fAegon, conquered the 7 Kingdoms on dragonback - but in a good way, not fuckin burning down the whole joint - won the War of the Dawn, retrieved Blackfyre from the ruins of Valyria... basically all the fanfic stuff you expect.

Played a game as Aegon the Conqueror which is a total faceroll because Balerion, Meraxes and Vhaegar are OP as anything. Conquer all of Westeros and/or Essos with no effort at all.
 
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