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[DCC RPG] Dungeon Crawl Classic's Implied Setting

The Disgruntled Poet

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Please tell me what's "fatalistic" about Paladins and lawful good alignments? What's "optimistic" about the utterly bizarre (to my mind) obsession by modern RPGs with post-apocalyptic settings and vampires?

With the greatest respect, I think you're all taking out of your rears.
To be sure, these things are being way oversimplified (especially the history) and somewhat overstated. However, think about the Assassin. In AD&D, this is a class available to players in the first PHB. In later editions, never so. I can't think of any other core starting PHBs (i.e, first PHBs for that edition) that contained a class that actually required you to play an evil alignment. By 3E, we didn't even want to use the word thief.. they had to call them "rogues." Eliminating the "real" demons and devils in later editions...

There are a lot of subtle differences... even in the art.. betw. AD&D and later editions. If you can't feel them qualitatively, I'm not sure I can explain it very well. 40ish guys like me never seem to require the explanation, we all get how the game just felt different after 2nd and later editions came out.

Gamma World is of course an oldschool game of the mid to late 70s that had many editions over the years.

Vampire, et al... I will confess I never played it and never read a rulebook. My sense of it was that it was mostly inspired by Anne Rice, which I read a lot of in the 80s and early 90s. When I hear about people's Vampire games, they always sound like gothy superheroes and dark conspiracy games more than actual grim, fatalistic horror a la Lovecraft. At this point, I really am talking out of my rear, so those of you who know the White Wolf stuff better should chime in on the OP's point.
 

Stainless

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The change in D&D that you speak of I also recognise. I interpret it as the result of the growing corporatisation of the brand coupled with the overarching growth of political correctness in the wider world; A spiral down to the lowest common denominator is a widely recognised phenomenon in many products (and certainly not excluding things like fiction, movies, etc.). I also see echoes of non-competitive sports days in the concept of "balance" in RPG design.

Somewhat back on topic, I'm eagerly looking forward to the DCC RPG and don't see it's mechanistic design and aesthetics in any way limiting me to a grim and negative approach to play. In fact, it's the perfect vehicle for a peasant to savour story arc.
 

The Disgruntled Poet

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Somewhat back on topic, I'm eagerly looking forward to the DCC RPG and don't see it's mechanistic design and aesthetics in any way limiting me to a grim and negative approach to play. In fact, it's the perfect vehicle for a peasant to savour story arc.
I'm hugely looking forward to DCC RPG. I ran a playtest last year and posted a playtest review of the BETA; one of my players did the same. The finished product is going to be phenomenal for the art alone. And it has some cool mechanical and detail bits that most retroclones don't even touch. (Extra funky dice, lots of magical mishaps, etc.)

Having said that, I had quite a long argument with my fellow playtester and reviewer on the game's assumptions, particularly that the game assumes magic to be dangerous and ultimately corrupting... at the time it seemed pretty certain that a caster would have major ramifications by the time he was mid-to-late levels. This struck us both as quite a contrast to traditional D&D where a 10th level mage is getting pretty godlike, without paying any cost in ethics or physical corruption (at least in pure game as-written terms).

While he disliked this, I loved it-- because to me it felt much truer to Lovecraft, Howard, Moorcock, et al.

So when you say "a grim and negative" approach to play, how would you view that assumption?

NOTE: All of that question is based on the beta, which may have changed somewhat in the final product obviously.
 

Stainless

Not enough time!
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I believe Joseph did change the spell corruption aspect of the game in response to the playtest feedback. I can't remember the mechanistic specifics posted on the Goodman Games forums. It was certainly a good example of a game designer listening to open playtester feedback and responding accordingly.

Yes, if I play a wizard, depending on the rate and severity of the corruption, it might feel a bit grim and negative. I think how that will typically play out is that players who specifically want that play style will take the wizard class; Good opportunities for roleplaying. It will be interesting to see if the final game has a mechanism for reversing the corruption via quests of some sort. I suppose many outside of the fantasy genre might find it all a bit grim. After all it, our games are usually significantly preoccupied with killing things, many of which are sentients.
 
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