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[Demon: the Descent/Hunter: the Vigil] Heirs of Hell and the Lucifuge

Patkin

ougikawa
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So, I've been considering this tonight, and I was thinking about how one would integrate the Lucifuge (both the person and the conspiracy) into Descent, from Descent's perspective.

In Hunter, the Lucifuge just approach themselves as the progeny of demons and of Lucifer/Satan, and their powers are typically infernalist magic/demon summoning tricks. But for Heirs of Hell, the progeny of demons are basically utilizing the same Embeds as the Unchained would, which wouldn't really show up like the Lucifuge's powers. So just what are the Lucifuge?

My current idea is that the Lucifuge (the organization) is the product of a Milanese agency (possibly compromised) that's chasing down latent children of demons and empowering them, while feeding them some line that will get them hunting problematic creatures for the God-Machine. The Lucifuge (the person) then might be an exiled angel, or a crafty Integrator who's been at this for a long time.

Anyone have some other ideas on how to approach this?
 

Insertname

Registered User
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Canonically the Lucifuge are the progeny of Demons. They're just not the progeny of the Demon: the Descent Demons. Instead, they're the progeny of what Inferno refers to as True Demons, the actual sin incarnate monsters that are actually slightly vague and come from Hell, a place that isn't described because that would imply someone got back out to speak about it.

Confusingly, there's at least three different things that nWoD refers to as Demons that are not the same.

If you wanted to strip this down and make the Descent Demons the only Demons, but still keep the Lucifuge, I would suggest making the Lucifuge the children of Angels instead of Demons. Angels probably have fewer children than Demons, but since it's Covers that become pregnant and Angels use Covers, then its possible and probably happens both by accident and by the God Machine's design.
The problem that appears with these children, however, is that their genetics read too much like the code of their parents, and Infrastructure commonly mistakes them for the actual Angel. This gives them the same kind of Rank pulling tricks that the Lucifuge do on True Demons, just in a radically different context (wouldn't work on Descent Demons, since they don't organize in hierarchies).

Plus, since Angels don't have Embeds and Interlocks, their powers are going to be weirder all around, reflecting the Numina of their parent(s).

Though, the idea of gathering the children of Demons to serve new purposes sounds interesting, it doesn't really add up that they'd use them to fight the enemies of the God Machine. The problem is that the children of Demons are already servants of the God Machine who have destinies set out for them, that's what their Ciphers are, progress along that path. Giving them other powers seems more like what an agency that wants to undermine the God Machine would do, using the agents of the God Machine to fight it, as it were.
 
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SunlessNick

Mildly Darkened One
Validated User
If you make Lady Lucie an Integrator, then she has access to pacts, and access to the Castigations could be granted as the terms of a pact when a Lucifuge agrees to join her conspiracy (the demonic stuff they experience before then is caused by her, to get them in the mood). She's developed the Castigations painstakingly over the centuries, and flavoured them to appear infernal, which is an easier narrative to sell to most people. This means of course she has a soul pact with everyone in the conspiracy, which despite what cynics will suspect, she never calls in (she'll use other people for that) - this is because the Children of the Seventh Generation aren't Lucifer's descendants, but hers, and she wants to do right by them - one of her goals for integration with the God Machine is to have her mortal family/families protected and/or privileged in its operations, and making them useful for opposing demons is just the most obvious part of that.
 

Professor Phobos

Sweeper of Arcane Lore
Validated User
An NPC in my defunct Demon campaign was going to be a "Demon demonologist" - that is, an Inquisitor specialized in studying the other kinds of demons.

But if you're consolidating, I would say that the whole traditional demon thing is a massive, long-running false flag operation that got completely out of hand.
 

RoadsOfShadow

Registered User
Validated User
Now this is just me, as in I've never even heard about anyone else doing this, but I'm found of the Lucifuge just being one of several extended several families with 'tainted' bloodlines. They just happen to be the one who remains well organized into the modern era, where as most of the families died out centuries ago.

Under this model, the reason the Lucifuge has hung together where others failed is because the Castigations, which rather than using their demonic lineage, use their not-quite-humanness as the key. Which yes, means that all sorts of people technically can learn them. The Heirs then, just become another group which posses the right mix of being human but not wholly human key to learning the infernal sorcery that the Lucifuge teaches to its members.
 

leetsepeak

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The Lucifuge are distinct from Offspring and Fractals, they're not really related to the Unchained. Mind you, if your dad's name is Joe, that doesn't mean that any guy named Joe is your dad. Same applies to Demons in the World of Darkness. It's just a word used to describe a bunch of different things, rather than a proper term.
 

The Kings Raven

Registered User
Validated User
I think everyone on this thread knows that; and they're talking about how to change the Lucifuge to make them part of Descent.

And since I have no interest in changing the Lucifuge to make them part of Descent I'll return to lurking. Have fun all :)
 

Prokhor Zakharov

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Mortal Remains states that a significant group of Lucifuge believe that they may be descended from demons who rebelled against the God-Machine rather than demons of the Inferno. It's an in-setting debate.
 
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leetsepeak

Registered User
Validated User
Mortal Remains states that a significant group of Lucifuge believe that they may be descended from demons who rebelled against the God-Machine rather than demons of the Inferno. It's an in-setting debate.
Which I think is worth noting, is based on the Hunter version of God-Machine Demons, rather than Demon: The Descent itself. Just like Excision wouldn't work according to Mage's cosmology, the truth doesn't necessarily carry when referring to the actual splat as opposed to Hunter's presentation.

Which IMO is pretty freeing. I'd suggest refluffing some Castigations to include some techno-horrory things if you wanted, or if you're looking for something more mechanically involved, consider making more limited versions of certain Embeds into Castigations.

For what it's worth, if one has to pursue the demon conflation line, I think the Lucifuge herself makes an excellent God-Machine oddity. It produces unique, weird things like the Dalga, the Clockwork Men, the fused man/oil rig and other stuff all the time. The Lucifuge is just an example where the experiment may have gotten out of control. Maybe the God-Machine experimented on a number of families, and the Lady of Milan was the first to wake up and realize what had been done. The judeo-christian weirdness, like their whole thing about having 666 members could be part of an Occult Matrix that the Lady has created/activated which helps to conceal the Lucifuge from their creator.

I think it's worth stressing that for the sake of hunter's themes, it's probably a good idea to keep the Lucifuge away from being absolute patsies of one organization or another. The Lady of Milan, Chevalier Theleme and all those guys are formidable, cool and most of all mysterious. Keep it vague, keep it weird, and keep it independent, and I think you have something interesting to work with.
 

stsword

Registered User
Validated User
Which I think is worth noting, is based on the Hunter version of God-Machine Demons, rather than Demon: The Descent itself. Just like Excision wouldn't work according to Mage's cosmology, the truth doesn't necessarily carry when referring to the actual splat as opposed to Hunter's presentation.
While hunter pays fast and loose with the other gamelines, the fact that according to Intruders one can invent a drug that suppresses a mage's ability to use magic suggests that's not really a valid example.

Now, for tying the lucifuge into the god-machine chronicle, that's easy, the lucifuge are the product of infrastructure. There are only 666 lucifuge, when one dies another is called, when one is called another dies, that is not how genetics work. Since the Enfants are the same, they must be created by the same infrastructure, so somewhere there's a piece of infrastructure that embues some 1332, not including those who become neither lucifuge nor enfant but turn into slashers instead, with supernatural power.
 
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