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[Discussion/Spoilers] 2nd Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Mejiro

I think I'm a Drow now
Validated User
No need to be rude.

Alright, even if she can't really do that, she still intentionally interfered to let the familiar go, which will still have predictable results.

Also, was it stated somewhere that Grief Seeds can't be stored for later use, or just implied? I can't remember.
QB was at least partially right, in that hunting familiars is sub-optimal in the sense of expending energy for no 'income', as only a full-on witch always drops a grief seed. Grief Seeds don't have to be used then and there (as shown by the various attempts to give them to Sayaka). A magical girl with larger territory that takes the time to hunt down witches is going to end up with a decent sized pile of grief seeds, letting her fight nastier witches with less danger, due to more recharging and so more use of powerful techniques (remember, Mami had 'bonus magic efficency' as her thing, so being able to dump out 'giant blasty attack of doom' more often is actually useful). Actually attempting to farm witches is going to be hard due to both morality and them being good at hiding, and any witch is nasty enough to potentially kill you, but spending a lot of time and energy on familiars can legimately be argued as not very useful.
 

Do Deca Hedron

Nice day for a wedding
Validated User
Oh, for heaven's sake. This again?

Look, there is no Witch-farming tactic. Kyouko can't actually do that. Pretending she could was just part of her trash-talking to the newbie, as an intimidation tactic. If Kyouko could actually farm Witches for Grief Seeds, she wouldn't have any particular reason to move in on Mami's turf. She would be better off sticking to her already-established Witch farm, rather than starting from scratch in a new area. When Kyuubei said it was possible for magical girls to stockpile Grief Seeds, he was intentionally misleading Sayaka because he's a villain who hoped to manipulate the situation to cause Madoka to contract.

Almost none of the information presented in Kyouko's introduction is actually correct.
Saving the familiar's life though is pretty much an objectively heinous action though. That's at least one death, probably more, done for no real reason except to be a dick.
 

mindstalk

Does the math.
Validated User
Saving the familiar's life though is pretty much an objectively heinous action though. That's at least one death, probably more, done for no real reason except to be a dick.
Done to increase the supply of grief seeds and thus of magical girl lifetime and power.
 

KoboldLord

Registered User
Validated User
Saving the familiar's life though is pretty much an objectively heinous action though. That's at least one death, probably more, done for no real reason except to be a dick.
Mami allowed Gertrud to escape in episode 1, and we don't know what Gertrud was up to before Mami found her again in episode 2. Was that an objectively heinous action, too? How about all those times Mami and Sayaka spend standing around, or attending classes, or talking to people they care about? They could be hunting down Witches during that time, at least some of which are definitely preparing to kill people at any particular time.

You demand more from them than they are capable of giving. In Kyouko's case, she's a refugee. She's got a subsistence diet, both in terms of real food and in terms of Grief Seeds, and she's trying to steal sustenance from somebody who has plenty. It's barbaric, sure, but nobody who has never been truly hungry has any right to get morally preachy.
 

Doom Gaze

Nowhere to be found.
Validated User
Mami allowed Gertrud to escape in episode 1, and we don't know what Gertrud was up to before Mami found her again in episode 2. Was that an objectively heinous action, too? How about all those times Mami and Sayaka spend standing around, or attending classes, or talking to people they care about? They could be hunting down Witches during that time, at least some of which are definitely preparing to kill people at any particular time.
...Was Gertrud even /there/ in episode one? Like, I mean, in terms of 'did we see her'? Because the barrier dissipates the moment Mami's dropped the Anthonies, which kinda implies they were the only ones out there.
 

Ikselam

may one day be worthy of your grace
Validated User
Kyouko's characterisation was ill-handled in some respects.
She--and to a lesser extent, Mami--suffers from being an exaggerated foil whose main purpose is to move things forward and contrast another character. They both also talk a lot of smack which fans tend to take at face value; Mami comes out looking better because hers is all nice-girl trash talk.

thagguy said:
(Side note: is there an equivalent of Danbooro without the ads and oodles of porn? It's nice having an English-language fanart depository, but the ads and the constant flood of porn (these characters are fucking 14, STOP) is really wearing.)
Safebooru and Zerochan stick to mostly SFW content.

As for ads, it's it's easy to get rid of those with an ad-blocker plugin.
 
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Ratoslov

Exploding Murderer
Validated User
They both also talk a lot of smack which fans tend to take at face value; Mami comes out looking better because hers is all nice-girl trash talk.
Also because Mami is a really cool, flashy character with one hell of an end to her character arc.
 

Ikselam

may one day be worthy of your grace
Validated User
Also because Mami is a really cool, flashy character with one hell of an end to her character arc.
Well yeah. Mami's early death makes us tend to overlook her flaws. Kyouko's doesn't, because it highlights her abrupt turnaround.
 

thagguy

Retired User
Done to increase the supply of grief seeds and thus of magical girl lifetime and power.
True, but I think her main intention was just to piss Sayaka off-her stated reason was just the cover for that. Bonus that it happened to be at least partially true.

Any way you slice it, letting the familiar go was pretty horrible. If she had just came in after and berated Sayaka, it would have gotten the point across just as well without Kyoko arguably crossing a line that a lot of people can't forgiver her for. You wouldn't even really have to change the dialogue too much, and Kyoko comes off as much less of a monster despite still advocating basically the same thing, just because she didn't do anything on screen. It also makes it more ambiguous how much of what she says is just "break that asshole's limbs!" style goading and how much is her actual MO, where you can't dispute that she let the Familiar go.

Even better, if you show her watching from afar and then interfering after the fact, it would also serve foreshadow that her "cold, uncaring bitch" facade is just that-a mask to cover up that she actually does care, but feels that selflessness only leads to misery.
 

Rabbit Éclair

high in vital bunnytonium
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Happy RL Walpurgisnacht! ... if there were a religion of Madokami, I guess this'd be like the Easter equivalent.
 
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