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[Discussion/Spoilers] 2nd Puella Magi Madoka Magica

KoboldLord

Registered User
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thagguy said:
Any way you slice it, letting the familiar go was pretty horrible. If she had just came in after and berated Sayaka, it would have gotten the point across just as well without Kyoko arguably crossing a line that a lot of people can't forgiver her for. You wouldn't even really have to change the dialogue too much, and Kyoko comes off as much less of a monster despite still advocating basically the same thing, just because she didn't do anything on screen. It also makes it more ambiguous how much of what she says is just "break that asshole's limbs!" style goading and how much is her actual MO, where you can't dispute that she let the Familiar go.
There's no reason to care. It's one Familiar, and there's a whole population of them out there. One Witch that you fail to kill because you pissed away your magic on one lousy Familiar will over time drop dozens or hundreds of Familiars to replace it. Mami may have the familiarity with her hunting ground to know how much energy she has to waste on Familiars without compromising her ability to recharge herself, or that could have been hubris on her part, but certainly neither Kyouko nor Sayaka has any reason to be confident in their ability to waste magic and still keep going. The consequences for misjudgment are dire.

Furthermore, jumping in and attacking Sayaka after Sayaka has exhausted herself in a fight would effectively commit Kyouko to murdering Sayaka. Kyouko's plan was to intimidate Sayaka without killing her, as can be demonstrated by her repeated use of non-lethal attacks and the repeated openings left for Sayaka to flee. Defeating Sayaka at Sayaka's full power shows Kyouko's greater power, while sucker-attacking Sayaka when she's already weakened shows Kyouko's weakness. If Sayaka was forced to flee in such circumstances, Kyouko would expect Sayaka to come back for another fight after recharging to full power, because they would both know that Kyouko tried to win with a sucker-punch instead of a straight fight. That's clearly much worse for Kyouko, because she has to spend more magic to fight two fights than she would spend fighting just one even if she can win both times.
 

thagguy

Retired User
There's no reason to care. It's one Familiar, and there's a whole population of them out there. One Witch that you fail to kill because you pissed away your magic on one lousy Familiar will over time drop dozens or hundreds of Familiars to replace it. Mami may have the familiarity with her hunting ground to know how much energy she has to waste on Familiars without compromising her ability to recharge herself, or that could have been hubris on her part, but certainly neither Kyouko nor Sayaka has any reason to be confident in their ability to waste magic and still keep going. The consequences for misjudgment are dire.

Furthermore, jumping in and attacking Sayaka after Sayaka has exhausted herself in a fight would effectively commit Kyouko to murdering Sayaka. Kyouko's plan was to intimidate Sayaka without killing her, as can be demonstrated by her repeated use of non-lethal attacks and the repeated openings left for Sayaka to flee. Defeating Sayaka at Sayaka's full power shows Kyouko's greater power, while sucker-attacking Sayaka when she's already weakened shows Kyouko's weakness. If Sayaka was forced to flee in such circumstances, Kyouko would expect Sayaka to come back for another fight after recharging to full power, because they would both know that Kyouko tried to win with a sucker-punch instead of a straight fight. That's clearly much worse for Kyouko, because she has to spend more magic to fight two fights than she would spend fighting just one even if she can win both times.
The thing was, in this situation, the familiar was already engaged. She was already fighting it; there's a difference between not fighting it in the first place and actively interfering to let it go.

If anything, Sayaka being exhausted just strengthens Kyoko's argument. "Nice job, dumbass. Now you're exhausted and you have nothin' to show for it. How much magic did you waste without getting a grief seed, anyway? If you can't beat a weak framilar like that, you won't stand a chance against a witch, let alone me. Now, anyway, since you suck at this, I'm just gonna take your territory, ok? Don't even try to fight me; you can barely stand, and I'm fresh. Take your friend and get out, or I'll throw you out." *takes a bite of taiyaki*

In any case, I don't think Kyoko really gives a shit about "beating her at full power." She ain't Goku; she'll take any advantage she can get. She was already going to kill Sayaka anyway after she refused to give up in canon; Sayaka only lived because Homaru time-stopped her out of the way of that spear charge.
 

KoboldLord

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The thing was, in this situation, the familiar was already engaged. She was already fighting it; there's a difference between not fighting it in the first place and actively interfering to let it go.

If anything, Sayaka being exhausted just strengthens Kyoko's argument. "Nice job, dumbass. Now you're exhausted and you have nothin' to show for it. How much magic did you waste without getting a grief seed, anyway? If you can't beat a weak framilar like that, you won't stand a chance against a witch, let alone me. Now, anyway, since you suck at this, I'm just gonna take your territory, ok? Don't even try to fight me; you can barely stand, and I'm fresh. Take your friend and get out, or I'll throw you out." *takes a bite of taiyaki*

In any case, I don't think Kyoko really gives a shit about "beating her at full power." She ain't Goku; she'll take any advantage she can get. She was already going to kill Sayaka anyway after she refused to give up in canon; Sayaka only lived because Homaru time-stopped her out of the way of that spear charge.
Kyouko doesn't care about beating Sayaka. She wants the territory. Spending too much magic to get this territory is BAD. Even if she can beat Sayaka, it won't help her if she spends so much magic doing it that she doesn't have enough left to restock. She's going in with a big threat display, and if necessary a quick and brutal attack, but ultimately Kyouko has nothing to gain by killing Sayaka and she knows it.

Sucker-punching Sayaka won't get Kyouko the territory unless she actually succeeds in killing Sayaka. To get the territory, either Sayaka must die, or Sayaka must choose to cede the territory. If Kyouko only fights when Sayaka is at a disadvantage, Sayaka will always be able to believe that next time Sayaka will win, and all Sayaka has to do is catch Kyouko at a disadvantage for a change. To convince Sayaka that Sayaka cannot ever win no matter how hard she tries, Kyouko attacks when Sayaka is strong. Unfortunately, her big beatdown is blunted by Sayaka's unexpected regeneration, and Sayaka doesn't submit as expected. Kyouko doesn't have a backup plan.

Kyouko didn't come for a real fight. Kyouko came to compare threat displays, and the weaker Magical Girl is supposed to back off. That way neither one has to waste too much energy, or risk serious injury. Just like how real predators act. It didn't work out for her.
 

Rabbit Éclair

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I don't think this has been discussed yet—for those who've gotten and watched the DVDs, any thoughts on the English dub now that you've got more than 30 seconds of examples to go off of?
 

Rabbit Éclair

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Thoughts upon watching the first DVD of Region 1 Madoka Magica
I actually really like the dub upon seeing more of it. Sayaka's VA fucking nailed the part overall, and Mami's does well with that whole overconfident, big-sisterly thing. Although Mami's tone does sound rather mature for a 14-year-old, but Mami is overall a very *ahem* mature-seeming 14-year-old. What little I've seen of Kyoko seems pretty fitting, too—they pretty much changed her over to talking like an English-speaking delinquent, so her talk with Kyubey about Mami's death turns into, "Guess I'll just have to kick this new kid's rookie ass!" Kyubey's the only one I'm a little uncertain on. In Japanese, he sounded like he had a little bit of a flat affect, which I don't get as much in the English dub. I wasn't sure about Homura's dub at first, but she kinda grew on me.

Seeing everything in HD, for a third time, kind of drives home why Meguca Meduka became a thing. Some of the off-model moments are kinda jarring—Mami's corkscrews change size drastically between shots at one point, and there's a spot where Kyubey's riding on Madoka's shoulder and looks like he's about a quarter of his normal size. I'm not sure if I'd still be noticing it if I were watching the show for the first time, or if it's just one of those 'CAN'T UNSEE' things.

Mami's whole Infinite Musket Works schtick never stops being cool, even when I've seen the first three episodes half a dozen times.

Reviewing the early episodes makes me go, "Oh my god, how did I ever think Homura was the antagonist?!" Simultaneously, I also think they did a really good job setting that up. It relies heavily on Homura being very secretive, but it's easy enough to explain that. OOC'ly, the fact that Mami, who was shown as benevolent and knowledgeable early on, called her out as a bad person just controlled the way I read all of her actions. Even after I realized that Kyubey was probably not in this for charity, I was still reading ulterior motives into all of Homura's actions for several more episodes.
 

Ace of Scarabs

Certified mechanoid pilot
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[video=youtube;gvu6wReTvKI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvu6wReTvKI[/video]

I just felt like linking this.
 

q_3

Ge.
Validated User
Re the above, I'm now imagining that Madoka spends much of her unlimited time shipping various magical girls with one another. Then inartfully introducing them to each other in the afterlife.

Anyway, I wanted to share this video due to its super impressive editing; with some tinkering to the chronology, it could have been one heck of a penultimate timeline:

[video=youtube;pQp8GWdpYug]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQp8GWdpYug[/video]

Spoiler: Show
I didn't fully realize what happened to Mami until I watched it a second time. Dark. Very dark.
 

Ikselam

may one day be worthy of your grace
Validated User
Re the above, I'm now imagining that Madoka spends much of her unlimited time shipping various magical girls with one another.
This is the premise of more than one doujinshi. Some of them aren't even porn!
 

Rabbit Éclair

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Since somebody else already bumped the thread, various stuff:

The movies, obviously. Showing in a handful of US theaters, but I'd be shocked if all the tickets weren't already sold out. The nearest one is something like a four hour drive away from me, so I'll be hoping Crunchyroll picks them up or something. If not, I'll be waiting another year for DVDs.

Madoka Magica Online, whose quality I can't vouch for because I can only read Japanese at like a kindergartener level and don't have the patience to translate browser MMO text.

I've also seen rumors that production staff have strongly hinted that they have a second series or something in the works after the movies, but again, I can't read Japanese and I haven't seen anything more official than 'some dudes posted this on Tumblr or something.' But assuming the movies do well, it wouldn't exactly be a shocking idea.
 
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