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Disney all-in on Star Wars a mistake?

Spatula

More Ideas Than Time
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I feel like it's an issue of verisimilitude, but maybe that's just another way to say what Rachel Cartacos just wrote. Different people have different lines in the sand.

For me, there's a discrepancy between the FO in TFA and in TLJ. All we see of them in TFA is on Starkiller, and Snoke's projection coming from somewhere. Starkiller gets blown up, taking a lot of soldiers and ships with it (shown on screen). But TLJ opens telling us the FO has the galaxy on the run and then they're launching this big assault on the Resistance base and it looks like losing Starkiller could have been their plan all along? Like, losing it wasn't a setback at all, and somehow destroying Starkiller was this huge setback for the heroes. Yay, you saved the Resistance planet from getting blown up. It just gets bombarded instead and you still have to evacuate. Whee? (of course, this just gets at the bigger issue with TLJ of it being depressing and overlong)

I don't need to know the story of the rise of the First Order or anything. I would like to know what the stakes are. Do they have an infinite supply of material and men? Can they build a sun-sucking pan-galactic planet-buster inside a planetary base, and lose it, and shrug it off? And if so, why? Do they control a whole galaxy of civilized worlds as the Empire did?
 

Grumpygoat

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I agree that there's a discrepancy between how things are portrayed in The Force Awakens and Last Jedi. In Awakens, the First Order comes across as Space North Korea. Threatening, but not able to stomp all over the galaxy. The Republic, meanwhile, has the impression of being bigger and more impressive than the First Order by a considerable degree, but unwilling to simply invade a foreign power. Thus, while the Republic's in a bad place after Awakens by virtue of its capital being destroyed, it's still more fearsome afterward than a Space North Korea that had its biggest military installation wiped from existence.

The Last Jedi upsets that notion entirely.

I just don't see that being a big issue. It's one of the warts on the movie, but the good far outweighs the bad. And Awakens put Johnson in a bad spot, anyway - what the hell would he do if the First Order was effectively done away with, and the Republic was still pretty powerful and had incentive to actually attack what remained? The second act of the trilogy ending with a massive Republic fleet stomping the remnants of Snoke's forces wouldn't make for a good second movie nor leave the third movie with much of anything to do.
 

FrivYeti

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I agree that there's a discrepancy between how things are portrayed in The Force Awakens and Last Jedi. In Awakens, the First Order comes across as Space North Korea. Threatening, but not able to stomp all over the galaxy. The Republic, meanwhile, has the impression of being bigger and more impressive than the First Order by a considerable degree, but unwilling to simply invade a foreign power. Thus, while the Republic's in a bad place after Awakens by virtue of its capital being destroyed, it's still more fearsome afterward than a Space North Korea that had its biggest military installation wiped from existence.

The Last Jedi upsets that notion entirely.

I just don't see that being a big issue. It's one of the warts on the movie, but the good far outweighs the bad. And Awakens put Johnson in a bad spot, anyway - what the hell would he do if the First Order was effectively done away with, and the Republic was still pretty powerful and had incentive to actually attack what remained? The second act of the trilogy ending with a massive Republic fleet stomping the remnants of Snoke's forces wouldn't make for a good second movie nor leave the third movie with much of anything to do.
Hm.

Just for fun, and with the benefit of ALL OF THE HINDSIGHT, I mulled over this for a bit, and I wonder if it might have been interesting if the two halves of TLJ had been "Rey is with Luke, and Leia is with the new leaders of the Republic, trying to convince them to defeat Snoke before he regroups."

In that situation, you could fold the Canto Bight stuff into showing the Republic elite - the ones who weren't blown up previously - as being full of First Order sympathizers and war profiteers, many of whom weren't at the Republic HQ because they thought something might go down, and who are literally blaming Starkiller Base on Leia inciting the First Order. Leia is shot by an assassin and keeps herself alive with the Force, and the tension is between Holdo having a plan and Poe blowing the plan to pieces because he wants to get the assassin RIGHT NOW. Meanwhile, Rose and Finn are trying to infiltrate the elite to get a hacker who can lead them to the First Order.

It still ends with a big space battle between the First Order and the last of the Resistance, and with Luke saving the day so that the Resistance can escape, aided by the fragments of the Republic who aren't co-opted and indicating that dealing with them will be the next big problem.
 

6inTruder

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Sorry- “her” as in Leia’s representative, not Carrie Fisher herself. Since the rep. briefly appears onscreen in The Force Awakens, I doubt they’d be able to repurpose the scene.
“Sir, it’s very kind of you to give that dead woman a second chance.”
 

Spatula

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Star Wars are fundamentally movies that hinge on personal battles between space wizards. The FO doesn't need to threaten the entire galaxy for there to be a story, there just has to be enough of them left that there can be some space battles. There's countless ways it could unfold from there.

The Republic's in bad shape. Leia tries to convince the local fleets to band together and finish wiping out the FO. But they only agree to stomp on whatever fringe worlds the Order has taken root in and prove unwilling to take on the difficult task of digging Snoke out of the Unknown Regions (very bin Laden-y!). So the Resistance has go deep into uncharted (by the Republic) space to finish the job. They're in enemy territory, they're cut off from aid, and they provide a window into the FO's world for the audience. Rey & Luke's time together comes to end in time for Luke to save the Resistance as Kylo has them on the ropes.
 

Qwa'ha Xahn

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The Republic's in bad shape. Leia tries to convince the local fleets to band together and finish wiping out the FO. But they only agree to stomp on whatever fringe worlds the Order has taken root in and prove unwilling to take on the difficult task of digging Snoke out of the Unknown Regions (very bin Laden-y!).
Every single numbered Star Wars film has had the fate of the galaxy as the backdrop for its space wizard battle, and of the two that didn’t feature space wizard battles- the successful one was about the fate of the galaxy. With that in mind, and I want to be clear that don’t mean the following as snarky as I’m afraid it’ll sound it, but in total honesty: this is exactly what a I got from the new films. As far as I can tell- the above is literally the story of The Force Awakens. The Republic is unwilling to directly confront the First Order in its territory, so Leia forms the Resistance to take the fight where the Republic won’t.

They're in enemy territory, they're cut off from aid, and they provide a window into the FO's world for the audience.
This is basically The Last Jedi.

Rey & Luke's time together comes to end in time for Luke to save the Resistance as Kylo has them on the ropes.
And I 100% believe this will be Episode 9. Luke and Rey’s time is almost certainly not over at the end of The Last Jedi, anymore than Luke and Obi-Wan’s was after Star Wars, Luke will save the day through Rey (and/or Ben), the same as Obi-wan and Yoda did through him in the originals, and replace “the Resistance” with “the Republic/galaxy” but basically: these are the movies we got/look to be getting.
 
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Spatula

More Ideas Than Time
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Every single numbered Star Wars film has had the fate of the galaxy as the backdrop for its space wizard battle.
Not really? #1 is a trade war confined to one planet. #5 is Vader hunting down the jerks who blew up the DS.

This is basically The Last Jedi.
TLJ was Leia & company trying to stamp out the FO while sneaking around FO-controlled space?

Anyway, my point was just that the FO didn't have to conquer the entire galaxy in the space of a few days for there to be a story.
 

Qwa'ha Xahn

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Not really? #1 is a trade war confined to one planet. #5 is Vader hunting down the jerks who blew up the DS.
Yeah- A trade war instigated as part of a space wizard plot to seize power, so that he conquer the galaxy. Empire I’ll kind of give you, but the backdrop was still the Rebellion vs. the Empire, the fate of the galaxy was still what was being fought over, and if Vader killed or captured Luke, we’re given to understand that that’s it for the galaxy.
TLJ was Leia & company trying to stamp out the FO while sneaking around FO-controlled space?
No, it was about what you said- the Resistance caught in enemy territory, cut off from aid, and the film provided a window into the workings of the First Order (they’re winning, but they haven’t technically seized everything yet, Hux is an ambitious idiot, there’s an old guard of officers that actually do know what they’re doing if only they weren’t led by idiots like Hux, and Kylo Ren is now the Supreme Leader).

Anyway, my point was just that the FO didn't have to conquer the entire galaxy in the space of a few days for there to be a story.
Maybe for a movie, but for a saga... why not go for the big stakes? I mean, I’d have been a bit peeved if the old cast died for a border dispute that was never going to go anywhere, because ultimately the Republic could beat the First Order if it wanted to. And if the implication is if the FO isn’t beaten, then it’ll attack the Republic and maybe beat it... that’s still the fate of the galaxy, isn’t it? I don’t understand the difference between what you want and what we got, I guess is what I’m saying.
 
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Anwar2

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All of it? Like, an entire, galaxy-wide force, wiped out in a single strike? OK, now I feel like how that was even possible needed to be explained as well because wow.

EDIT: Having looked it up, it appears the strike wiped out the Home Fleet, rather than the whole fleet. This is probably not a small force, but still raises the question as to why the rest of the Republic Fleet isn't on the offensive and why the Resistance is still so small rather than serving as something of an auxiliary command to unify planetary forces that aren't part of the Republic military proper against the First Order.
They didn't want to have there be a big army on the good guy side because that would've been too much like the Prequels, so they needed the NR's forces annihilated ASAP out of the story.

Really, Rebels vs Empire is the only SW story that the fans has unanimously accepted in the past. Alternatives have been tried to near-failed results, so Disney didn't want to risk that again.
 

kitty voodoo

Social Justice Slytherin
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You know, here’s the thing about all of those Disney’s Galaxy’s Edge FAILED!! Vlogs on the YouTubes, well two things really 1) it’s not true 2) they are pretty all all Vlogs of the ‘get woke, go broke’ variety. So anyone who is basing Disney’s success by viewing them, is not really in touch with actual reality...
 
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