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[DitV/Naruto] Look mom! I made an abomination!

Temple

Skjalg Kreutzer
So, after watching well over 100 episodes of Naruto (I jumped straight from the end of the Sasuke Retrieval arc to Shippuuden, for those who care about that stuff), it struck me that the conflict system in Dogs in the Vineyard is perfect for the way conflicts are portrayed in Naruto.

Fights in Naruto operate on several "levels," just like escalation in DitV. First they talk, then they fight using taijutsu, then they get serious with more advanced nin- and genjutsu techniques, before finally going completely apeshit with special/secret/unique moves.

Just like in DitV, escalation doesnt have to go up the scale; Naruto characters often escalate from fighting to talking, for example, stopping in the middle of a heated fight to have long debates or explain how their jutsu work and just how they are going to pwn their opponent.

Just like how you invoke Traits in DitV, characters in Naruto often bring elements of their background stories into conflicts to gain a second wind. Wether its Naruto remembering a promise to Sakura or Rock Lee thinking about a lesson from Guy, they invoke elements from their pasts and gain renewed strength in combat.

Of course, the actual DitV game doesnt work for Naruto. DitV is about moral choices, and I dont think you can make that work in the context of the manga/anime. But the mechanic is dead on IMO!
 

braincraft

Member
RPGnet Member
Banned
You could make a case about Naruto being largely about moral choices, especially in some arcs. Sasuke makes the moral choice to abandon everything in his quest for vengeance; Neji makes the choice to hate the main branch of his house and beat up Hinata because they enslaved his family and were responsible for the death of his father. It's all about hubris and vengeance, like any good old-fashioned tragedy. You could expand on that, or just lift the system out of the setting; I don't feel that the presumed campaign setup is especially tied to the mechanics.
 

Scurvy_Platypus

I'm Rolpunk, bitches
I'm not really familiar with Naruto, other than having read the first 2 books (Tokyopop) which seemed groovy.

I've got to admit, I saw the title of the thread, and immediately had a bit from the "Peaches" video (done by The Presidents of the United States) pop into my head. I'm sure there's some sort of commentary about me in that, but I'm not sure what it is.

I think something closer to "abomination" might be claimed if something like Vampire: TheWhatever were to be taken and remade to use the DitV rules.

In the case of your Naruto thingy though, I for one think it's workable. I don't see a whole lot of issue with the morality aspect, but if you wanted to explore a different theme, could always swap "personal honor" or "family honor" in for "morality".
 

Aikireikinu

Tsundere Cat
RPGnet Member
Validated User
That actually sounds kind of neat and could be used to emulate the "philosophical combat" genre, like Ruroni Kenshin, Trigun, or Grenadier.
 

ru

temporary avatar
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Fights in Naruto operate on several "levels," just like escalation in DitV. First they talk, then they fight using taijutsu, then they get serious with more advanced nin- and genjutsu techniques, before finally going completely apeshit with special/secret/unique moves.

Just like in DitV, escalation doesnt have to go up the scale; Naruto characters often escalate from fighting to talking, for example, stopping in the middle of a heated fight to have long debates or explain how their jutsu work and just how they are going to pwn their opponent.
i think this is spot on. nice one :)
 

Temple

Skjalg Kreutzer
Naruto could have Traits like "Unpredictable Noisy Ninja," "Nine-Tailed Demon Spirit" and "Dreams of becoming Hokage" for example. Its completely useless to stat up Jutsus and combat moves though. It wouldnt be tactical combat by any stretch of the imagination.

But thats sort of cool.
It opens up other possibilities. Like turning losses into victories without having to come up with some genious plan OOC. Your enemy is about to kill you (your running out of dice), and theres no way to escape? Whoops, seems like it was a Shadow Clone, and the real you was hiding in the bushes waiting for an opening! Just invoke "Unpredictable Noisy Ninja (2d10)" and gloat about your geniusly enacted masterplan. :D

I think I would definately like to try this.

I think it could be possible to run Ninjas in the Vineyard actually. Instead of villages you would have missions, and the moral dilemmas would revolve around friendship, alienation, sacrifice and personal honor. Maybe it could work..
 

Sage Genesis

Two
RPGnet Member
Validated User
The strange thing about Naruto is that even though it does work as described above, it also operates on a highly tactical level at the same time.

People make plans. Jutsus are counteracted with clever ploys or figuring out the weak spots of them. Ambushes are done with multiple layers, like an explosive tag used to "herd" the victim into an ever worse trap.

You could handwave it all away and call it a function of having the Awesome Ninja trait, but that's doing the show a disservice I think. Strong people in Naruto are strong, and they're only defeated by being either very smart or just as strong. I'm further ahead in the story than the OP is, and I'll point out any battle against Akatsuki members to prove this point.
Spoiler: Show
Take a look at the death of Asuma Sarutobi for instance. Shikamaru's insanely good planning helped them get revenge, a desire for vengeance not quite so much.
 

Temple

Skjalg Kreutzer
The strange thing about Naruto is that even though it does work as described above, it also operates on a highly tactical level at the same time.

People make plans. Jutsus are counteracted with clever ploys or figuring out the weak spots of them. Ambushes are done with multiple layers, like an explosive tag used to "herd" the victim into an ever worse trap.

You could handwave it all away and call it a function of having the Awesome Ninja trait, but that's doing the show a disservice I think. Strong people in Naruto are strong, and they're only defeated by being either very smart or just as strong. I'm further ahead in the story than the OP is, and I'll point out any battle against Akatsuki members to prove this point.
Spoiler: Show
Take a look at the death of Asuma Sarutobi for instance. Shikamaru's insanely good planning helped them get revenge, a desire for vengeance not quite so much.
But just because the characters are tactical geniouses doesnt mean that combat has to be tactical, atkeast not in that sense. As a player you dont have to lay intricate plans or predict your opponents moves, because that (to me atleast) just isnt fun. It never becomes as cool as in the show (or the movies, or the book, or whatever source you are emulating), because predicting the actions of real people isnt as easy as it is in the fiction. I always end up disappointed when I try to play cool fighters because I cant do all the cool things I want my character to be able to do.

But if you run it like I suggested, you dont have to. You can come up with those cool plans on the fly long after your character has executed them, describing how they impact the fiction. That way, the same kind of suspense seen in the show will come out in play. :)
 

braincraft

Member
RPGnet Member
Banned
But just because the characters are tactical geniouses doesnt mean that combat has to be tactical, atkeast not in that sense. As a player you dont have to lay intricate plans or predict your opponents moves, because that (to me atleast) just isnt fun. It never becomes as cool as in the show (or the movies, or the book, or whatever source you are emulating), because predicting the actions of real people isnt as easy as it is in the fiction. I always end up disappointed when I try to play cool fighters because I cant do all the cool things I want my character to be able to do.

But if you run it like I suggested, you dont have to. You can come up with those cool plans on the fly long after your character has executed them, describing how they impact the fiction. That way, the same kind of suspense seen in the show will come out in play. :)
Agreed.

And I feel that, to the contrary, the cited example is even more supportive of the point Belphanior is using it as evidence against. It's made pretty clear in the manga that the character is using his vengeance as motivation to do what he needs to do.
 
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