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Exalted: Devaluing the Dinar

Seneschal of the Sun

New member
Banned
A major theme in Exalted is that many exalted HATE the guild, and yet, sadly, most are forced to suffer its existence, even to do business with it.

Is this a Hack, or a legitimate strategy?


Wyld shape up Resources 5 in Silver Dinars, with Guild markings a dozen or so times, put the coins into circulation, so that each individiaul coin is worth less.

Then have an eclipse caste friend start a rumor that some curse from heaven is causing Silver currency to "Mysteriously disappear"

Then watch as peice by peice, at various times as each peice has different degrees of interaction with creation, vanishes into thin air, hopefully causing mass paranoia towards the guilds pet currency.


Anything im missing?
 

AlphaWhelp

Shark Aficionado
Validated User
A major theme in Exalted is that many exalted HATE the guild, and yet, sadly, most are forced to suffer its existence, even to do business with it.

Is this a Hack, or a legitimate strategy?


Wyld shape up Resources 5 in Silver Dinars, with Guild markings a dozen or so times, put the coins into circulation, so that each individiaul coin is worth less.

Then have an eclipse caste friend start a rumor that some curse from heaven is causing Silver currency to "Mysteriously disappear"

Then watch as peice by peice, at various times as each peice has different degrees of interaction with creation, vanishes into thin air, hopefully causing mass paranoia towards the guilds pet currency.


Anything im missing?
I am pretty sure the Guild has had to already put up with similar problems from Fair Folk doing this to them, and are probably prepared for it.

edit: besides, they will likely never disappear, given that only wyld shaped items that do not interact with creation will disappear, and silver coins are going to be always interacted with, unless they go sit on top of a giant pile of money for months, in which case the owner probably won't even notice them go missing.
 
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TheMouse

garmonbozia
Validated User
Unless you churn out astounding amounts of fake Dinars, you're probably going to make a tiny impact. A currency as widely used as Dinars is going to have a huge number of coins in circulation. If a few thousand here and there go poof, it's going to make a minimal difference.

Most of what's going to happen is the guards of a couple of vaults are going to be tortured to death during the course of investigations. Because only coins that spend a lot of time not interacting with people are going to go poof, and those are mostly going to be the ones sitting in someone's vault.

Besides which, the truly wealthy are going to use silver talents, which mostly exist on paper. So your efforts won't even affect them.
 

Moonstone Spider

GG
Validated User
It might be a better option to just devalue silver by manufacturing it like crazy. There's an alchemical procedure, Heavenly Transmutation Process, that can turn one substance into another, such as lead into gold or flawed corundum into rubies. Pick out a version that turns wood or similar into silver, get a thousand followers (it takes no essence), and go to town. It manufactures resources 4 silver per hour, and the rules indicate that a person with 4 dots of resources makes 20-30 talents of silver a year, and resources 5 is 60 talents a year. Granted translating dots into direct numbers is fuzzy but this kind of suggests you can make resources 5 silver each 2 hours.

So taking a thousand followers all doing this, you'll make four thousand resources 5 piles of silver coins each 8 hour day. Do this a couple of months straight, and you will have 240,000 times more silver than the wealthiest guild leader makes in a typical year. Spend it like water and suddenly the value of silver will drop like a rock and guild currency won't be worth the cost it takes to stamp. 'Course since any group of a thousand mortals can do this, there's the big question of why anybody, ever, would value any metal when you can manufacture them with three alchemical degrees and an hour's time. Logically Creation probably has a counter to manufactured gold, silver, and precious stones too, else your typical dirt-poor peasant should use 24k gold for his plumbing, but there's no canon reason this shouldn't work.
 

Fresh Ninja

New member
Banned
Anything im missing?
Say this works, isn't another organization similar to the Guild going to take over its niche once it's vacated? You gotta get rid of the niche, not the organization. Work to outlaw slavery and many of the other inhuman practices the Guild engages in, and thus you won't just end the Guild, but also prevent successors from arising.
 

ResplendentScorpion

neither glitter, nor substance
Validated User
There's an alchemical procedure, Heavenly Transmutation Process, that can turn one substance into another, such as lead into gold or flawed corundum into rubies.
You need an equal value quantity of the other item.
So, in the long run, you might devalue silver relevant to some other material, but you'll probably do more damage by removing that other material from the world first.
And the Guild will just profiteer off the crisis you've created. The dinar helps them, but they don't need it - they already trade by barter in a lot of places that do not accept the dinar.

Work to outlaw slavery and many of the other inhuman practices the Guild engages in, and thus you won't just end the Guild, but also prevent successors from arising.
The Guild will just sell you all the other things you need and thrive. Slavery and drugs get all the attention because they are the most shocking, not because they are the single pillars of Guild prosperity.
All your neighbours will probably start kidnapping your people to use and sell as slaves exclusively, almost as if somebody tipped them off, or even bribed them.
If you ever openly act as an Anathema, the Guild of course will try to convince you they are blameless(and most of them will be blameless), and inquire how to placate you, while secretly contacting the Wyld Hunt.
 
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Moonstone Spider

GG
Validated User
You need an equal value quantity of the other item.
So, in the long run, you might devalue silver relevant to some other material, but you'll probably do more damage by removing that other material from the world first.
And the Guild will just profiteer off the crisis you've created. The dinar helps them, but they don't need it - they already trade by barter in a lot of places that do not accept the dinar.
Actually it says you get half as much total material, not an equal value. Resources 8 worth of wood in Exalted is kind of nonsensical given the rules and resources cap (no mortal would ever be able to use alchemy in that case, and even a first age Solar would need legendary wealth), so it has to be mass or volume. So 2 pounds of wood yields 1 pound of silver, or possibly a cubic meter of wood yields half a cubic meter of silver.

But as an alternate plan, if you have a Lunar with stamina favored, have them pick up the scorpion and toad tree up to "Scorpion and Toad Mastery" (3 charms) and have them take a dose of heroin. They can now piss heroin. The guild is offering a massive bounty on a beast of resplendent liquid, so I'm sure you're seeing how this goes. Have the Lunar mockup a decent imitation of the beast's shape using a big lizard base form, changing plumage mastery, and maybe some mutations from Hybrid Body rearrangement if needed. Even if it doesn't perfectly match the beast's appearance, the fact that it can, in fact, piss genuine heroin is going to be pretty convincing and you can chalk up irregularities to scars or it's odd diet since it's been wandering around on it's own for a while.
From there you now have a Lunar on the inside who can wreck their stuff (they won't want to hurt their precious money maker), or simple shift into a mouse, escape, and get sold to another guild official shortly afterwards. Combine with a sorcerer using travel spells to go all over creation and you can probably sell the guild the same beast a few hundred times before they get wise to it and send out messages ordering their agents to quit buying beasts of resplendent liquid. You could also use some Solar Bureaucracy and timely ambushes to slow down that message. . .
 

ResplendentScorpion

neither glitter, nor substance
Validated User
Actually it says you get half as much total material, not an equal value. Resources 8 worth of wood in Exalted is kind of nonsensical given the rules and resources cap (no mortal would ever be able to use alchemy in that case, and even a first age Solar would need legendary wealth), so it has to be mass or volume.
Hey, just because the rules don't allow you to mass-produce silver doesn't mean they are nonsensical.

The series of scams seems like a brilliant plan, if you want to make a lot of money and bankrupt a lot of individual Guildsmen.
The Guild itself, being nothing more, nor less than the entirety of mercantile interests in 30% of the world will just carry on.
It would be easier to just have a Fair Folk ally mass-produce heroin, so you can undercut Guild prices, and starve their drug producers out of profits in a given area.
Or your ally could even mass-produce a better, more addictive drug that is cheaper and incompatible with all other drugs, allowing you to completely push the Guid's drugs out.
Or you could just do as the Stone Circle did, and brainwash the entire population of a country into hating trade and drugs, and be rid of the Guild for good.
 

Kaiju Keiichi

New member
Banned
Actually it says you get half as much total material, not an equal value. Resources 8 worth of wood in Exalted is kind of nonsensical given the rules and resources cap (no mortal would ever be able to use alchemy in that case, and even a first age Solar would need legendary wealth), so it has to be mass or volume. So 2 pounds of wood yields 1 pound of silver, or possibly a cubic meter of wood yields half a cubic meter of silver.

But as an alternate plan, if you have a Lunar with stamina favored, have them pick up the scorpion and toad tree up to "Scorpion and Toad Mastery" (3 charms) and have them take a dose of heroin. They can now piss heroin. The guild is offering a massive bounty on a beast of resplendent liquid, so I'm sure you're seeing how this goes. Have the Lunar mockup a decent imitation of the beast's shape using a big lizard base form, changing plumage mastery, and maybe some mutations from Hybrid Body rearrangement if needed. Even if it doesn't perfectly match the beast's appearance, the fact that it can, in fact, piss genuine heroin is going to be pretty convincing and you can chalk up irregularities to scars or it's odd diet since it's been wandering around on it's own for a while.
From there you now have a Lunar on the inside who can wreck their stuff (they won't want to hurt their precious money maker), or simple shift into a mouse, escape, and get sold to another guild official shortly afterwards. Combine with a sorcerer using travel spells to go all over creation and you can probably sell the guild the same beast a few hundred times before they get wise to it and send out messages ordering their agents to quit buying beasts of resplendent liquid. You could also use some Solar Bureaucracy and timely ambushes to slow down that message. . .
This idea is WIN. +1!
 

Kaiju Keiichi

New member
Banned
Hey, just because the rules don't allow you to mass-produce silver doesn't mean they are nonsensical.

The series of scams seems like a brilliant plan, if you want to make a lot of money and bankrupt a lot of individual Guildsmen.
The Guild itself, being nothing more, nor less than the entirety of mercantile interests in 30% of the world will just carry on.
It would be easier to just have a Fair Folk ally mass-produce heroin, so you can undercut Guild prices, and starve their drug producers out of profits in a given area.
Or your ally could even mass-produce a better, more addictive drug that is cheaper and incompatible with all other drugs, allowing you to completely push the Guid's drugs out.
Or you could just do as the Stone Circle did, and brainwash the entire population of a country into hating trade and drugs, and be rid of the Guild for good.
Well, the thing is, with the right Bureacracy Charms, would you let a Solar Circle destroy and replace the guild? Is that something you want to tell a story about?

I see no reason why the Guild ought to have the same narrative protection a Deathlord might. Sure, they should be monstrously tough to deal with, but if you envision your circle of whatever type of Exalts (Solars, Sworn Brotherhood, Sidereals) being able to win against a Deathlord, then they should be able to win against the Guild.

No setting element should be sacrosanct, nor survive without harm the dedicated attentions of a determined group of PCs.

I hold that the Guild would be tougher to deal with than an individual Deathlord, because a Deathlord only has a certain area of influence. The Guild would need to be transformed, eliminated, and/or replace. In order to do it right, the Guild would need to be subverted over a course of a century of two by a dedicated Solar circle who had experts in all the fields in their number. But they can do it - ruling Creation is what Autocthon and the UCS built them for. It'd be a lot tougher than a scam involving a bunch of duped silver. However, the Lunar impersonating a Beast sounds incredibly funny.
 
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