[Exalted-] What problems do you have with Ex3 and what are you doing about it?

Irked

Registered User
Validated User
Issue: BP/XP chargen split retained.
Solution: Rewrite character creation.
Spoiler: Show

Attributes: Choose one each of your Physical, Social, and Mental Attributes to by Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary. All Attributes begin with one dot; distribute additional dots among them as follows.
∙ In your primary collection, choose between 5/5/1 and 5/4/3 + 4 XP.
∙ In your secondary collection, choose between 5/3/1 and 4/4/2.
∙ In your tertiary collection, choose between 5/1/1 and 4/3/2.

Abilities: Choose 5 Caste Abilities and 5 Favored Abilities. Raise 9 Abilities to three dots; any number
of times, you may substitute "Raise two Caste/Favored Abilities to two dots" or "Raise three Abilities to
one dot" for "Raise one Ability to three dots." Choose four Specialties. Choose one Caste Ability to be Supernal.

Merits: Merits are a flat 3 XP/dot.

Finishing Touches: You may spend 60 XP at any point.

Issue: Craft is not useful for characters who "dabble," making only occasional Major and Superior projects.
Solution: Delete all references to "silver points" or "silver experience points." Delete all Charms dependent on these points; remove references to these points from all other Charms. Major projects require no expenditure of craft points.

Issue: Craft slots create peculiar interactions where a character is unable to start work on a large ship at all one day, and yet on another day can complete an arbitrary number of day-long projects in the course of a single day.
Solution: Remove all references to craft slots. A character may have any number of projects, of any type, in progress simultaneously. However, any particular period of time spent crafting only benefits a single project, of the player’s choice, and the character must still pay the normal craft point costs to attempt to complete a project. Delete all Charms primarily dependent on slots, and remove all references to slots in other Charms.

Issue: Charm text is ambiguous; some concepts are repeated across multiple sections, re-explained each time.
Solution: Introduce new keywords, applying them to Charms appropriately...
Spoiler: Show

Extended - When activating this Charm, you may extend its duration from "Instant" to "One turn"
by paying an additional 2m. If you activate multiple Charms with the Extended keyword, you need pay this
surcharge only once to apply it to all of them.

Group - Social influence enhanced or provided by this Charm ignores the normal -3 penalty for targeting
a group.

Quickshot - Attacks granted or enhanced by this Charm do not require an Aim action to succeed,
regardless of range.

Terror - This keyword indicates an effect causing supernatural terror. (In general, effects that say they
cause supernatural terror may be considered to have the Terror keyword.) Supernatural terror effects can
affect even characters who are normally immune to fear, unless some effect specifically states otherwise.

Touch - An effect with this keyword requires you to physically touch the target of that effect. Typically,
this requires you to be at close range of that character. Outside combat, you may attempt to touch an
unaware character via a Pickpocket action; if the Touch attack is part of a Simple Charm, you may make
this action as part of the Charm's activation. In combat, you may attempt to touch an enemy by making a
difficulty 5 Gambit with Brawl, Melee, or any Martial Art using non-ranged weapons.

... introduce and disambiguate system terminology, and then use it consistently through Charm effects...
Spoiler: Show


free full Excellency - An effect that grants a free full Excellency allows a character to roll his normal die pool, plus as many dice as he would be allowed to add to that pool given the dice-cap for effects of that kind. (For instance, a Solar Charm granting a free full Excellency to a roll would allow the character to add (Attribute + Ability) dice, less any other bonus dice from which his attack already benefitted.) Alternatively, a free full Excellency can be applied to a static value; in this case, the static value is increased to the limits of the dice-cap. (For instance, a Solar Charm granting a free full Excellency to a static value would increase that value by ([Attribute + Ability]/2, round down), less any other bonuses already added to that static value.)

is disengaging - A character who made a successful Rush attempt and is still capable of making a
reflexive move action as a result of that attempt is disengaging.

is rushing - A character who made a successful Rush attempt and is still capable of making a reflexive
move action as a result of that attempt is rushing the target of the Rush attempt.

Major/Defining action - A Major action is an action that would require a Major or Defining Intimacy
for support in order to be compelled via a successful Persuade action. Similarly, a Defining action is an
action that would require a Defining Intimacy for support in order to be compelled via a successful Persuade
action.

move directly - If an effect instructs you to move directly to another range band, you are no longer
present your starting range band and are now present in the destination range band. You do not pass
through intervening range bands. You may ignore barriers or other obstacles that would normally prevent
the trip. You may ignore the presence of enemies in your current range band that would normally force
you to Disengage before switching range bands. Moving directly does trigger the reflexive movement of a
character who is disengaging, if they are in your destination range band.

recurring-Xs - If an effect states that it would grant recurring-Xs, where X is an integer from 1 to 10,
that means that the effect rerolls any dice showing the number X. If the rerolls continue to show dice with a
recurring-X number, continue to reroll the dice. If any rerolled dice would have provided successes or other
beneficial effects to the roller, retain those effects; thus, a die showing a 10 would ordinarily give +2 successes
before being rerolled via recurring-10s. On the other hand, if any rerolled dice would have created penalties
before being rerolled, ignore those penalties. Thus, a die showing a 1 that was rerolled via recurring-1s would
not contribute to the roll being a botch, nor could that 1 be used by hostile magic to affect the character.

redirect - If an effect would state that it redirects an attack to another character, resolve that attack
from the beginning as if it had been made against the other character, and do not continue to resolve it
against the original target. The attack must benefit from any effects from which it benefited the first time,
at no additional cost. The new target can declare defensive effects against that target as normal.

set a die - If an effect tells you to set a die to a particular value, choose an existing die and rotate it to
show the appropriate face. This counts as rolling that value.

... and introduce new general-case rules.
Spoiler: Show

Clashes
A character may Clash an attack from beyond his weapon’s maximum range; this includes Clashing a ranged
attack with a non-ranged weapon. If he wins the Clash, he negates the other attack as normal, but he gains
no bonuses for winning the Clash and his opponent takes no penalties for losing the Clash. In particular,
his attack does not hit his opponent.

The bonuses granted by a Clash apply only to the specific attack that was Clashed. If a character loses
several Clashes in one turn, the penalties from those Clashes stack.

If a character makes multiple attacks, those attacks can be individually Clashed. His first attack against
a particular enemy will Clash with that enemy’s first attack against him, his second attack on that enemy
will Clash with that enemy’s second attack on him, and so on. A character making multiple attacks who
loses a Clash does not forfeit his remaining attacks.

Contradictory effects
If one effect would state that some action automatically succeeds (or that an attack automatically hits)
and a contradictory effect would state that some action automatically fails (or that an attack automatically
misses), the second effect has priority unless the first effect specifically addresses it. For instance, attacks
made beyond maximum range automatically miss. If such an attack is enhanced by a Charm which states
that the attack automatically hits, the attack still misses; if the Charm specifically says to ignore the normal
effect of missing attacks beyond maximum range, however, the attack automatically hits.

If the above rule is insufficient to resolve a conflict, both contestants roll an appropriate (Attribute +
Ability) pool, with any bonuses indicated by the effects in question. The effect of the player with the higher
roll takes priority. If both players tie, neither effect resolves.

Counterattacks
If an effect would grant a counterattack, that counterattack is resolved as a normal reflexive attack of the
appropriate type, which does not consume your attack action for the round. By default, a counterattack is
made after an attack is made on you, and only after that attack has fully resolved. You may make no more
than one counterattack in response to a single attack on you, even if one or more of the counterattacks would
use different timing rules than the above, unless the effects specifically state otherwise. You may not use a
counterattack in response to an attack granted by a Charm with the Clash or Counterattack keywords, nor
may you use a counterattack in response to an attack that you Clashed.

Defend Other
If an attack is made against a character you are defending via a Defend Other action, treat that attack
as if it was made against you for the purposes of triggering effects (including Counterattack- and Clash-keyworded
Charms) and Onslaught penalties. If the attack overcomes your Defense and continues to the
original target, treat that attack as if it was also made against that target for the purposes of triggering
effects and Onslaught penalties. Otherwise, do not treat that attack as if it was made against the original
target for these purposes.

Dissipating motes
Some effects grant motes which state that they “dissipate” at the end of some period, or that they dissipate
unless spent on particular kinds of effects. In the latter case, such motes do not dissipate if spent on
appropriate effects and are treated in all ways as normal motes. If any motes committed to a non-Instant
Charm dissipate, that Charm immediately ends.

Feats of Strength
You may attempt a Feat of Strength for which you lack the minimum required Strength, but that attempt
automatically fails.

Healing
Normally, when you heal damage, you begin by healing a health level with the largest wound penalty. If any
effect would cause you to heal a health level with a smaller wound penalty while a health level with a larger
wound penalty remains, you always suffer the larger penalty. (For instance, suppose you have damage to
your -0, -1, and -2 health levels. Normally, you would begin by healing your -2 health levels, but your wound
penalty is still -2 no matter how many -0 or -1 health levels you heal.

Interruptions
If an effect would kill you or otherwise render you incapable of making an attack before you resolve damage
from the attack, resolution for that attack (and any later action you would take this turn) immediately ends.

Mounted combat
Your wound penalties do not apply to movement actiosn you make while mounted. However, your mount’s
wound penalties do apply to such actions.

Multiple attacks
If a magical flurry or similar effect would tell you to make multiple Decisive attacks, you typically
wait until all such attacks have resolved before determining the change to your Initiative. If all such attacks
missed, you lose 2i per attack. If any attack hit, you instead reset to base Initiative. If any effect would
change your Initiative in the middle of the flurry (for instance, if you suffer a Withering Counterattack),
apply that change after resolving the changes above. (This can mean that, after resolving an entire magical
flurry, you are Crashed by an enemy attack made partway through that flurry.)

Onslaught penalties
Whenever you are attacked, you take a -1 Onslaught penalty to your Defense, which lasts until the start of
your next turn. This penalty begins immediately after determining whether the attack hits. Thus, the first
attack on you after your turn begins is made against your full Defense (ignoring other effects). However,
if that attack had a clause which said it added (your Onslaught penalty) to damage, it would add +1
to damage, because damage resolves after determining whether an attack hits. Any effect which states it
“removes” or “ignores” an Onslaught penalty does not modify that penalty, but it does prevent the penalty
from modifying the character’s Defense. Any effect which states it “prevents an Onslaught penalty from
increasing” does prevent increases in the actual Onslaught penalty, not merely in the modification of the
character’s Defense due to that penalty.

Parrying lethal damage unarmed
If you apply your Unarmed Parry to a Withering or Decisive attack, you take one automatic level of lethal
damage. You may prevent this damage with an appropriate stunt describing how you avoid being hurt.

Ranged attacks
You can make an attack on enemies beyond your weapon’s maximum range, but such attacks automatically
miss.

Throwing large enemies
By default, when grappling an opponent who is substantially larger than you, you cannot throw him.

Timing
When resolving a contested roll, the attacker declares all Charms, and then the defender declares all Charms.
If the contested roll is a Clash, instead declare Charms in the order in which the Clash participants declared.

Your turn begins at a point immediately before you take your first non-reflexive action in a round. Your
turn ends at a point immediately after you take your last non-reflexive action in a round.

Issue: Game contains a number of Charms that underwhelm or are extremely niche.
Solution: The following Charms are optional; characters count as having them to satisfy prerequisites as long as they satisfy all prerequisites of the optional Charm itself. (This does not allow optional Charms to count for the sake of non-specific prerequisites such as "Any three Awareness Charms.") Characters may choose to purchase optional Charms as normal.
Spoiler: Show

Unbound Eagle Approach, Foe-Scenting Method, Studied Ear Espial, Scent-Honing Prana, Living Pulse Perception, Superior Violent Knowledge, Subject-Hailing Ideology, Swift Gambler's Eye, Reversal of Fortune, Life-Exchanging Prana, Agile Dragonfly Blade, Whirlwind Armor-Donning Prana, Diamond-Body Prana, Sea Ambush Technique, Wind-Defying Course Technique, Humble Servant Approach, Immortal Commander's Presence.

Issue: A number of Charms are either too good (which unbalances the game), too weak (gating off effects that should be naturally part of an Ability), already removed by conditions above, or just don't fit with the game's normal process-based resolution and/or the tone I want for my games.
Solution: The following Charms are removed and may not be taken. Characters count as having them to satisfy prerequisites as long as they satisfy all prerequisites of the removed Charm itself. (This does not allow removed Charms to count for the sake of non-specific prerequisites such as "Any three Awareness Charms.")
Spoiler: Show

Ten Ox Meditation, Tireless Workhorse Method, Efficient Craftsman Technique, Arete-Shifting Prana, Supreme Celestial Focus, Sublime Transference, Ages-Echoing Wisdom, Dragon Soul Emergence, Copper Spider Conception, Clay and Breath Practice, Summit-Piercing Touch, God-Forge Within, Exegesis of the Distilled Form, Spirit-Stoking Elevation, Dual Magnus Prana, Brass Scales Falling, Red Anvils Ringing, Time Heals Nothing, Mind-Expanding Meditation, Divine Mantle, Empathic Recall Discipline, Unshakable Rogue's Spirit, Master Plan Meditation, Fate-Shifting Solar Arete, Cup Boils Over, Mind-Scribing Method, First Knowledge's Grace, Tireless Learner Method, Tome-Rearing Gesture.


Miscellaneous tweaks: Craft does not have multiple sub-Abilities; replace references to such with discussions of Craft specialties. Training effects in Lore do not cost experience points for the user; instead, they cost the recipient's experience points as normal, if the recipient tracks experience points, and function as training-time reducers. Wyld-Shaping Technique and its add-ons do not cost experience points. Wyld-Called Weapon requires normal crafting rolls to be performed, waiving only the requirements for materials and time.
 
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Ferrinus

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Validated User
I'm going to have to make heavy weapons either cost init to swing or cost init to miss with because as-is being inherently inaccurate just makes them a newbie trap unless you plan to spend your entire career fighting immobile, defenseless blobs.
 
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squidheadjax

Social Justice Cultist
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Validated User
I'm going to have to make heavy weapons either cost init to swing or cost init to miss with because as-is being inherently inaccurate just makes them a newbie trap unless you plan to spend your entire career fighting immobile, defenseless blobs.
I think I'm reading this incorrectly, because it sounds like you want to make heavy weapons even more pointless.
 

The Exigentleman

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HAH!

The odd thing? I'd commented before Heavy Weapons are now by far and away the best weapons in the game. To the point that most of my Melee characters use 'em. I actually feel light weapons could use a buff. Though they are more defensive and you can dual wield... hrm. ;)
 

Ferrinus

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Validated User
HAH!

The odd thing? I'd commented before Heavy Weapons are now by far and away the best weapons in the game. To the point that most of my Melee characters use 'em. I actually feel light weapons could use a buff. Though they are more defensive and you can dual wield... hrm. ;)
I defended heavy weapons vigorously until, to settle for good the question of whether the dps gain was worth the accuracy loss, we took it to anydice.com and actually took a look at what hit chances were given varying amounts of equipment and charm use. Hoo boy was my face red!
 

HoratioAtTheBridge

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I defended heavy weapons vigorously until, to settle for good the question of whether the dps gain was worth the accuracy loss, we took it to anydice.com and actually took a look at what hit chances were given varying amounts of equipment and charm use. Hoo boy was my face red!
I'm interested in that math. I would think that the added accuracy of a light weapon is more of a "win more" situation than something that is required in order to be effective at all, given that decisive attacks have 0 bonus to accuracy but are still expected to hit pretty regularly (but perhaps I'm mistaken in that as well).
 

Dulahan

Active member
Validated User
Wow, am I the only one who likes the new Exalts?

Getimians, even with what little we know, strike me as particularly useful, and give us a VERY good reason for why the Siddies aren't more involved with things than they are. And the converse is true.

Liminals seem like a good addition, and give us something new to work with the very cool Underworld setting that isn't just Ghosts, Ghostblooded, or Abyssals.

Exigents are just plain awesome. Though I almost wish the new edition had been JUST Exigents, and maybe DBs... That would have been a massive change, but definitely fit the every Exalt is special paradigm.

The rest? Well, there's one of my big complaints. I'm annoyed we don't know anything yet. And that it's being kept so secret. It makes it really freaking hard to run a broad picture focused game when there are entire groups you know jack about. No clue what space they fit in, no clue what they do, or how they do it. Or why. Even just a few sentences on each would have helped. Like if we heard "The R____ are a destabilizing presence along the borders of the Wyld, and while they aren't friends of the Raksha, nor are they friends to the Lunars" or something. That alone allows you to have some concept of how to avoid stepping on their toes, and work a story to eventually include them when the book does drop.

What can I do about this? Not a whole lot. Mostly just hope I hear something soon, I’m what I like to call a Setting Literalist – I prefer things as written, not leaving things out. The setting was designed with the new parts in mind, yet we don’t know anything at all about the new parts, which means the setting isn’t complete yet. All we need is a small amount to use house rules, but until then? Yeah. Liminals? Getimians? We know that much already, even if it really isn’t much, the Getimians give us enough to work with.

My other, potentially bigger issue? All the stupid XP costs to DO things. I'm not talking get stuff on your sheet. I'm talking shit like Sorcerous Workings that don't directly add something to your sheet. Want to use them to restore the land? Sucks to be you. Take an XP hit for being a good guy! I don't care that Solar XP MIGHT be accrued by the right sort to offset it. That's still stupid, because others are getting Solar XP for kicking ass and taking names. Crafting? Another similar example.

Hell, it encourages selfish power gaming, because why should I be awesome and spend XP become a rainbringer to distant wastes when I can instead make myself a floating fortress demesne and get Solar XP on top of an on Sheet Benefit!? Or use that to give myself a cult instead of just being good? Or make an artifact for a friend instead of myself?

Just hate the XP costs. They’re stupid. Time is a valuable resource too. That should be the real issue, and if it isn’t, then you should have time.

As for what? Hope whatever GM I play under isn’t a dick about things like Sorcerous Workings that don’t directly benefit you aside from your legend? Because again, not a ton I CAN do if I’m in a game that is going strictly by that rule other than not get to play the character I want to because of stupid arbitrary costs that seem designed to presume you’re being selfish instead of trying to be a hero. It would take ONE sentence, hell, one partial sentence “costs are X if it adds something to your sheet.” BAM! Issue nonexistent.
 

Ferrinus

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Validated User
I'm interested in that math. I would think that the added accuracy of a light weapon is more of a "win more" situation than something that is required in order to be effective at all, given that decisive attacks have 0 bonus to accuracy but are still expected to hit pretty regularly (but perhaps I'm mistaken in that as well).
I'm on my phone so I'll have to link you to the actual stuff later today, but you'd see like a 35% chance for a heavy weapon user to hit a medium weapon user and a 68% chance to be hit in turn - and because +1 parry is equivalent to +1 soak if you're getting hit anyway, the heavy guy wasn't even doing more damage unless both characters were reduced to rolling their overwhelming value.

I DIDN'T compare light to medium, though, so while I share your intutions I'm not prepared to go to bat for them.
 
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