Expected levels of engagement and interest

hyphz

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#61
I don’t agree that in this context, blaming the hobby is the same as blaming the hobby community.

If I go to play tennis and I don’t like how fast the ball moves, then probably tennis is not my game. This does not mean it is bad or that I blame all tennis players for it. The fact that my opponent could agree to play the ball more slowly for me, and that this would be a sociable thing for him to do, does not change the fact that fast shots are part of tennis and if I do not like them it is tennis I do not like.

I mean one thing I have noticed here is that nobody has suggested that the players who are sitting around chatting or on their phones are not participating in the hobby. The presumable implication is that this behaviour is, in fact, part of what roleplaying is?
 

FickleGM

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#62
Bit of a Tangent, but in response to some of the "playing on your phone" comments:
Our game would stall if people put their phones away. We store character sheets online. We have a Forum, with Session Reports, Rules discussions, Setting details etc.
I prepare Player Handouts, NPC Profiles/pics electronically, and send via email, or facebook, or Chromecast them to the big TV.
People take notes on their tablets and use online dice rollers/skill calculators.

Similarly, before we had phones at our gaming table, people would doodle on their sheets, build dice towers, chat about non-game-related things, and other wise let their attention wander from the game.

The technology changes, and maybe makes it easier to not be involved (some people find it difficult to leave a FB or SMS unanswered, never mind unread!), but it is the behaviour, not the tech, that is the issue.

(As an aside from the tangent (!), I nearly got into a heated argument when a friend became agitated that an App would not let him Print a document, but he could share it electronically. i suggested that this was fine. Email it. He posited that in a Business Meeting, people should not be being distracted by their phones. I countered that this was not a distraction but a central part of the Meeting, and I'd be glad when we killed less trees and stopped paying so much for Ink, when electrons are cheap.)
I agree with this. When I run games, my gaming books and references are all on my phone, so as a GM, my phone is out and I'm on it a lot. When I play, I have my character sheets on my phone along with my books, and may even use a dice rolling app.

As to my expectations, I have one:

1) You are there because you want to be there.
 

Uthred

Nature's critical miss
Validated User
#63
Bit of a Tangent, but in response to some of the "playing on your phone" comments:
I think there's a big difference between playing on your phone and playing the game with your phone, the former is playing candy crush at the table the latter is what you're describing.

I mean one thing I have noticed here is that nobody has suggested that the players who are sitting around chatting or on their phones are not participating in the hobby. The presumable implication is that this behaviour is, in fact, part of what roleplaying is?
If you show up for an RPG session you are participating in the hobby, if you then dont participate in the game you are not participating in the game but you are still technically participating in the hobby because the hobby is not just the game. But a roleplaying game involves roleplaying while the hobby does not necessarily so not participating in the game while participating in the hobby has no implications on what behaviour constitutes "part of roleplaying." Perhaps its uncharitable but these threads always feel vaguely like overly intellectual trolling.
 

hyphz

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#64
If you show up for an RPG session you are participating in the hobby, if you then dont participate in the game you are not participating in the game but you are still technically participating in the hobby because the hobby is not just the game. But a roleplaying game involves roleplaying while the hobby does not necessarily so not participating in the game while participating in the hobby has no implications on what behaviour constitutes "part of roleplaying." Perhaps its uncharitable but these threads always feel vaguely like overly intellectual trolling.
Honestly I'm not trying to troll, I'm trying to get a handle on what the strange nature of roleplaying as a hobby is. There seems to be this weird disconnect between refusing to say that the phone players and Python jokers are not roleplaying, but at the same time, insisting that games which do not work at all with those players are the best example of roleplaying games.

What you're saying above just seems bizarre, for example. Nobody would say that you were playing tennis because you showed up with other tennis players to the court but never hit the ball. Nobody would say that you were playing tennis because you showed up to the court and wanted to be in the court, if you didn't hit the ball.
 

Uthred

Nature's critical miss
Validated User
#65
Honestly I'm not trying to troll, I'm trying to get a handle on what the strange nature of roleplaying as a hobby is. There seems to be this weird disconnect between refusing to say that the phone players and Python jokers are not roleplaying, but at the same time, insisting that games which do not work at all with those players are the best example of roleplaying games.

What you're saying above just seems bizarre, for example. Nobody would say that you were playing tennis because you showed up with other tennis players to the court but never hit the ball. Nobody would say that you were playing tennis because you showed up to the court and wanted to be in the court, if you didn't hit the ball.
It's almost as if tennis and roleplaying arent the same thing. You're conflating the hobby and the actual act of playing a roleplaying game, they're separate things. We are currently taking part in the hobby, we are not playing a roleplaying game. If I write a scenario and post it on Google+ I am taking part in the hobby, I am not playing a roleplaying game. If a player shows up to game, they are taking part in the hobby but unless they play the game they are not playing a roleplaying game. You're drawing erroneous implications by conflating the two. You also seem to expect the game to mandate basic social interaction but thats probably a different issue.
 

BlackSpike

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Validated User
#66
I think there's a big difference between playing on your phone and playing the game with your phone, the former is playing candy crush at the table the latter is what you're describing.
Yes, that is the point that I was making, in response to some of the "No phones at the game-table!" suggestions.
Our table needs phones. we have chosen to make it that way. And, yes, we have to put up with a bit of "Sorry, was just checking Facebook, who's initiative is it?". But we don't have to put up with people forgetting their character sheets, or not knowing what went on last session.

Phones don't disrupt games. People not getting involved in the Game disrupts games.
 

hyphz

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#67
It's almost as if tennis and roleplaying arent the same thing. You're conflating the hobby and the actual act of playing a roleplaying game, they're separate things. We are currently taking part in the hobby, we are not playing a roleplaying game. If I write a scenario and post it on Google+ I am taking part in the hobby, I am not playing a roleplaying game. If a player shows up to game, they are taking part in the hobby but unless they play the game they are not playing a roleplaying game. You're drawing erroneous implications by conflating the two. You also seem to expect the game to mandate basic social interaction but thats probably a different issue.
If a player shows up to a gaming session but spends the whole time playing Candy Crush on their phone, then they were still taking part in roleplaying?
 

Uthred

Nature's critical miss
Validated User
#68
If a player shows up to a gaming session but spends the whole time playing Candy Crush on their phone, then they were still taking part in roleplaying?
No clearly not, but if they show up for a game they are still taking part in the hobby.
 

SuperG

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#69
Question: Would people rather have a player who aggressively micro-manages the other players, telling them how they should behave in both social and tactical situations... or one who pulls themselves out of the game and thus the spotlight to rein in those tendencies?

Because I do that.
 
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