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Face doesn't lead the A-Team

taleswapper

Social Justice Lazy Warlord
Validated User
Honestly, it can work either way (but I often think both intelligence and charisma are represented to some degree in the same leader). Of course, if you look at 4E D&D, the warlord has two archetypal stats: intelligence (for more tactical warlords) and charisma (for more inspiring warlords), which can be emphasized and combined to varying degrees.
 

MoonHunter

Game Guru-Thread Shepherd
RPGnet Member
Validated User
In some games, Face just does not have the right social skills. While he has savoir faire and fast talk, he does not have leadership/ inspiration. Yes, those all use the same core stat, but he does not have it. His leadership would be a good roll, but... most importantly he does not have Strategy and Tactics - the important leadership skills.

After all, you will follow someone to hell and back.... it would be nice if they had the skills to get you back. There are many charismatic leaders that people would follow anywhere... including their doom. If they had the military unit skills or a few knowledge skills, then you don't die.

Kirk - High Charisma, high seat of his pants strategy roll... but more luck, bluff (which I am beginning to think is his high skill), seduction, and bonuses from stimulants.

Also remember that The Batman and Darth Vader are high charismatic people... they just use their Charisma for Fear, Intimidation, and Reputation. Vader's leadership style is all intimidation and promotions, with bonuses for fear of death renewed every few scenes when he chokes someone (anger issues) and promotions (always good for a bonus). He does get results. Batman's leadership style is "Do what you do, but if I tell you do do something, do it now." (He super genius Strategy/Tactics and find weakness skill rolls are obscene). He does not have leadership skill, he just uses his base charisma score.
 
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Noclue

Registered User
Validated User
Wait, you mean you're not supposed to select leaders based in likeability and fast talking?
 

Delgarde

Registered User
Validated User
And of course A-Team is a weird example to hang on, as Hannibal was better at being the face than Face. He even was able to do the master of disguise thing. Face's thing was 'women kind of liked him more.'
Well, he may be called Face, and he might be where the term comes from, but it doesn't mean he actually *is* a Face, as we usually use the term.
 

David Artman

Designer and Producer
Validated User
I just thought Face was a gender-flipped spin on the "sexy infiltrator" trope so common in caper stories. Until recent decades, no one would make the "sexy infiltrator" the leader (sexism being what it was).

So we got a bit of a pickle, in terms of (Campbellian) Archetypes being conflated with (tactical) Roles.

Would you, for instance, really care about the character stats of a BD&D Caller? Probably not--the player's actual ability to corral a bunch of screaming, arguing nerds is way more important.
Conversely, would you care about the stats of the BD&D character in charge of directing and organizing a mob of hirelings? Hell, yeah, you would (if you want to keep them moving and prevent them from realizing they could probably gank you all and take the loot).
 

The Manchurian

Registered User
Validated User
Honestly, in my experience, the party leader should be the most charismatic, sensible, and fair-minded player. Or the one who is best at making plans. They can send the PC with the highest Charisma to talk to NPCs: the leader needs to "corral a bunch of screaming, arguing nerds" as David Artman said.

Actually, most of the time I find the best leaders are the oldest players... but that might just be coincidence.
 

Shining Dragon

Tough Tiger Fist
Validated User
And of course A-Team is a weird example to hang on, as Hannibal was better at being the face than Face. He even was able to do the master of disguise thing. Face's thing was 'women kind of liked him more.'
... and he could fly a Viper! :p
 

Icarium

Registered User
Validated User
To be fair, I don't recall Hannibal actively fast talking people. In a nutshell, they had different social focuses. Hannibal was Acting, Disguise, and Leadership. Face was Bluff, Diplomacy, and Seduction. :)
 
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