Final Fantasy XIV

Icarium

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I'd be a lot more willing to have "gray" choices if it was like SWTOR and you could shape your personal story, myself. :)

Spoiler: Show
I mean, even in HW, which had pretty much the best shades of gray story I've seen, there were issues. The whole "you have to apologize to the dragons for things your ancestors you had NOTHING TO DO WITH did but the dragons never actually apologize for, y'know, being just as complicit in the war after that point and actually seem to think punishing children for their forefathers' mistakes is right" is annoying. You can't argue with dragons instead of elves, as it were. :)


(SBlock'd that as it deals with a major reveal in the HW story, and some people I remember seeing just joined the game.)
 

Azaael

Have you the strength?
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Oh yeah(also includes some spoilers for a job quest):

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I mean, if it were like, recent memory, 'My parents were involved in this gigantic betrayal', I could understand it. Or even like, grandparents. I mean hell, Ala Mhigo tried to plow into Eorzea in living memory of several of the races, and that's like 80 years. If it's in relative living memory, sure, I can understand a bit of salt there.

This shit was over a thousand years ago. I get they tried to paint it with the whole 'Well near immortal beings, a thousand years is like one human year' bit(which has been used before in ways), but it definitely got a bit 'hmmmm' a few times, as much as I generally love the expac. That and I mean the tonberries were kinda treated like shit a thousand years ago and while they definitely got kinda vengeful, that was more one of them twisting the rest once you get to the end of the story. Once you deal with the Tonberry King, most of them become pretty cool and seem to try to do right.
 

FortMan

Viva Romanesco!
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Oh yeah(also includes some spoilers for a job quest):

Spoiler: Show
I mean, if it were like, recent memory, 'My parents were involved in this gigantic betrayal', I could understand it. Or even like, grandparents. I mean hell, Ala Mhigo tried to plow into Eorzea in living memory of several of the races, and that's like 80 years. If it's in relative living memory, sure, I can understand a bit of salt there.

This shit was over a thousand years ago. I get they tried to paint it with the whole 'Well near immortal beings, a thousand years is like one human year' bit(which has been used before in ways), but it definitely got a bit 'hmmmm' a few times, as much as I generally love the expac. That and I mean the tonberries were kinda treated like shit a thousand years ago and while they definitely got kinda vengeful, that was more one of them twisting the rest once you get to the end of the story. Once you deal with the Tonberry King, most of them become pretty cool and seem to try to do right.
Although...
Spoiler: Show
If I remember correctly, Hraezvelgar's brood, folks we forged peace with, didn't participate in the Dragonsong War (at least, not as aggressors), and thus don't really have anything to apologize for. The assholes are Nidhogg and his brood, who, as I understand, still don't agree to peace as a group, but are now too weak to actually oppose it.
 

Icarium

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Nah.

When you talk to Hraes, he basically goes: You all are tainted. Your forefathers killed Rata and you hold the original sin for it. They're actually right, I just can't kill you due to Shiva. And he never acknowledges that maybe, just maybe, the dragons are culpable too. That by this time, they were punishing total innocents.

He does fight Nidhogg so that's a plus. But he never gets called on his hypocrisy here. Just "men are bad, mmkay!" Even when you 'prove' yourself to him right before Final Steps of Faith, it's kind of weirdly backhanded, almost. Man must apologize to the dragons for things they had no part in. The dragons? Nah, they don't gotta apologize for shit. I mean, Hraes gave Nidhogg his eye knowing what he'd do with it, he says as much.
 

sun_tzu

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For the record, including moral choices in an MMORPG can be done. SWTOR had Light Side and Dark Side choices for Republic and Empire players both. Some of my favorite MMO moments involved playing a Lightside Sith Warrior.
 
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Nah.

When you talk to Hraes, he basically goes: You all are tainted. Your forefathers killed Rata and you hold the original sin for it. They're actually right, I just can't kill you due to Shiva. And he never acknowledges that maybe, just maybe, the dragons are culpable too. That by this time, they were punishing total innocents.

He does fight Nidhogg so that's a plus. But he never gets called on his hypocrisy here. Just "men are bad, mmkay!" Even when you 'prove' yourself to him right before Final Steps of Faith, it's kind of weirdly backhanded, almost. Man must apologize to the dragons for things they had no part in. The dragons? Nah, they don't gotta apologize for shit. I mean, Hraes gave Nidhogg his eye knowing what he'd do with it, he says as much.
HW spoilers
Spoiler: Show
I agree with what you're saying. I think he's too proud and hurt to say the words. But consider his actions: he let's you ride him, he gives you his eye, fights his brother when he probably knows he won't win. He knows the current actions of the Brood have gone too far, and while it takes it bit for you to get him to that point, I would posit his opposition to Nidhogg constitutes his apology. Just d-d-don't make him say it outloud, o'kay?

SB spoilers
Spoiler: Show
He shows up again at one point after HW, and he's all 'I only came because dad said I had to', and look, I'm not saying that's unpossible; I'm just saying it reads to me more like he's trying to preserve/regain a measure of aloof, impartial dignity than anything his magically-communicated-dispite-being-KOed-dad might have told him to do.


Whether I'm right or wrong, I do think a sign of maturity is being able to admit fault. I just don't think the relevant parties have ever had to do that and as such aren't as good at it as one might hope for.
 

Tanka

We See You
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For the record, including moral choices in an MMORPG can be done. SWTOR had Light Side and Dark Side choices for Republic and Empire players both. Some of my favorite MMO moments involved playing a Lightside Sith Warrior.
The game has to be built around that, with story alterations to match. FFXIV hasn't really been built for that.
 

Icarium

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Yup. They have been doing multiple options of late, but only cosmetically. :)

Maybe they'll do more eventually, who knows, though that's not really a classic Square thing.
 

PenguinZero

Wark!
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Well, my computer decided to die today, and it looks like fixing it, if possible, wouldn't really be much easier than just getting a new one. (Most of it is about eight years old at this point.) Which I'd sort of been thinking of doing to make sure I could actually run Shadowbringers, so I guess it's not bad having a kick in the pants to get me moving. Except, of course, it's going to take a while to get the new computer. (Probably close to two weeks if I go for the model I actually want, instead of just what's currently in stock.) Just as the patch was about to drop and I was actually getting decent at tanking (managed to tank Alphascape v4.0 without dying even once this week! Yes, for me, that's an achievement), and I was starting to have a little free time to RP.

Hope you guys enjoy the wrap up of Stormblood -- I was looking forward to being on the same page as everyone for once, but it was not to be. I'll probably duck out of the thread to avoid spoilers...
 

Icarium

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You'll have time to catch up. I doubt 4.56 will be that /long/ really, it's usually a few hours, so hey. You have till July 2nd. Well, June 28th for Early Access, but yeah. :)
 
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