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Forgotten Realms developments since early 4th Ed?

KingDobbs

New member
Banned
Sorry, you're right, bias creeped in.

You're not supposed to like Elminster in this version. This version just allows you to hate his Author Insert-ness in-character.
Sorry, allow me to be more clear.

That won't help Elminster be more hated than the constant stream of trying to reclaim Aquaman by making him overly badass making Aquaman more liked.

It's yielding ground to the argument that Elminster was supposed to be likeable in the first place.
 
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MelanisZbri

Member
RPGnet Member
You mean you think he was originally intended to be disliked?
Which certainly isn't the case in Grey Box FR - he's just a sage who lived in Shadowdale, surrounded and cared for by the heroes he helped in dealing with the drow and bandits and warlords that infested the area. He wasn't anything like the God-Damned-Batgod of the setting, having a contingency spell for everything, tutoring his own goddesses, acting as a backup server for the magical internet, etc. Just an elderly old man in his twilight years who knew an awful lot about the Realms, mostly stuff decades ago (learned first hand) or info traded to him (by adventurers looking for his help).
 

Bruce Redux

Not flying or biting
Validated User
Which certainly isn't the case in Grey Box FR - he's just a sage who lived in Shadowdale, surrounded and cared for by the heroes he helped in dealing with the drow and bandits and warlords that infested the area. He wasn't anything like the God-Damned-Batgod of the setting, having a contingency spell for everything, tutoring his own goddesses, acting as a backup server for the magical internet, etc. Just an elderly old man in his twilight years who knew an awful lot about the Realms, mostly stuff decades ago (learned first hand) or info traded to him (by adventurers looking for his help).
I admit to liking the idea that that guy, who's someone I can see actually using as an NPC, has gotten bonded with some kind of Moorcockian other-dimensional entity whose chaotic essence is destabilizing the whole world (and beyond). Disentangling the guy and the thing would then lead to a healing of damaged history.
 

simontmn

Registered User
Validated User
A lot of people (myself included) really don't like the Forgotten Realms as a setting. So they nuked it to make it better for us. What they failed to take into account was
(a) A lot of people really like it as well
(b) If I want to choose a setting that fits my tastes I already had e.g. Eberron or Planescape, and the Nentir Vale's pretty good. A Nuked Realms would never be as good as either.

Well I love the Nuked Realms, for me it's the perfect 4e setting. :D But yeah I'm not surprised that the appeal proved limited; it's great for using bits of Realmslore without feeling bound by it, but if you hate the entire Realms, or you are a Canon junkie, it's not going to be good for you.
 

Scrivener of Doom

New member
Banned
Well I love the Nuked Realms, for me it's the perfect 4e setting. :D (snip)
I largely agree.

BTW, around 2006 I was seriously considering nuking the Realms myself. :)

As for Elminster, the opening sentence of my outline for my next campaign which will be set in Shadowdale is ELMINSTER IS DEAD. I don't have a pathological hatred of him - although I won't read Ed's novels anymore - but he doesn't suit my campaign so he's gone. Fortunately he also took Manshoon the vampire with him so there's my excuse for activating a very old clone of a much weaker Manshoon who is now trying to turn the Zhents into the Zhentarim they once were....

Edit: But the 4E maps are shit. Shit. Shit. Shit. They're effectively unusable... unless Mike Schley has done an updated version but the Lazzaretti ones that were originally published were shit. (And I mean almost literally. When my son was about 6 months old, the contents of his nappies/diapers were the same colour as the 4E maps for FR. I still believe that is where the cartographer got his inspiration.)
 
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Akrasia

Lord of Procrastination
Validated User
I know absolutely nothing about the Forgotten Realms. Which single book would be best for me to get an overview of it? That is, which book is best in its own right without any regard for how it fits in with other canon. Would 4E's be bad if I didn't care about what came before?
I recommend the original 'Grey Box' 1st edition AD&D version of the Forgotten Realms.
 

simontmn

Registered User
Validated User
This thread has been very useful for thinking about what to do with Elminster in my non-canon FR game. I like the idea that the post-Grey Box Elminster was just propaganda, I reckon I'll go with that. All those non-Lich, non-deity good-aligned Archmage NPCs who (post-grey box) were supposed to be thousands of years old (Elminster, The Simbul & her sisters, etc) never sat well with me, again I'll make that propaganda. I'm thinking that when powerful human wizards get into their second century or so, the skein of their lives drawn thin "like butter stretched over too much bread" as someone once said :D, they often start going mad and claiming to be gods/immortal/five-thousand years old Netherese Archmages, etc.
It's sad, but inevitable.
 

Crowqueen

Corvus Sapiens
RPGnet Member
Validated User
(And I mean almost literally. When my son was about 6 months old, the contents of his nappies/diapers were the same colour as the 4E maps for FR. I still believe that is where the cartographer got his inspiration.)
:D. That was what I found quite hard to cope with when I was depressed. Colours in the art I was doing, whether it was 2D or miniature painting, usually came out the same sort of muddy and washed out shades. When I began to recover the wider palette came back (it's almost there, but not quite). Perhaps some antidepressants of choice need to be given to whoever does the next maps.
 
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