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'gamergate' is bad and all, but lets not forget the REAL victims here

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Bailywolf

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The gamers, of course.

So when did they start trying to flip the script on this?

I'm sure I'm only just noticing something that's been ongoing, but it has started to penetrate the unruly frontiers of my social media networks.
 

Imban

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I'm quite comfortable saying that Zoe Quinn is the primary victim of all of this nonsense while still saying this kind of behavior should be discouraged. Also there's basically two threads about this already so I reported this one to get merged in.

EDIT: The guy apologized later, so don't go hunting him down or anything. He just had a flameout on Twitter.
 
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Bootleg Girl

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I'm writing my dissertation of this. My view is that this is the victim narrative that gamers are taught starting in high school about how we're the downtrodden nerds, and that gamers in online culture have begun to appropriate tropes associated with queer oppression to articulate their victimhood.
 

CLAVDIVS

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One theory I've seen: It's an extinction burst. Certain segments of gamer culture (what I like to call "entitled shits") are throwing a tantrum because things are changing and their familiar behavior-reward buttons aren't working anymore. The upside is that this kind of freakout allegedly presages a lasting victory.

(I'm hoping the same principle applies to the progress on LGBT rights.)
 

Catharsis Cat

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Have you seen some of the nasty balanket statement being thrown around at "gamers" recently? (some of the stuff in #describe a gamer in four words, would get you banned here fo group attacks)

While there are certainly some people who are trying to flip the scipt, I am pretty sure there are a non-trivial percentage that feels like they are being attacked.

Do keep in mind that different people view and define the term gamer differently and don't see "we're not bashing people who like video games, but gamers" to pretty much be the same thing.
 
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Bootleg Girl

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One theory I've seen: It's an extinction burst. Certain segments of gamer culture (what I like to call "entitled shits") are throwing a tantrum because things are changing and their familiar behavior-reward buttons aren't working anymore. The upside is that this kind of freakout allegedly presages a lasting victory.

(I'm hoping the same principle applies to the progress on LGBT rights.)
yes, BUT... this doesn't mean "gamer culture" is dying. I didn't want to jump into the other long Zoey Quinn thread, but the current "brogamer" archetype is about ten years old, dating back to the original XBox or maybe Playstation at latest. Before that, it was a subset of the wider nerd culture, which has always had issuesl like what we're seeing here, but there were several traits that were different - most notably, the lack of an emotional investment in the success of corporate sales numbers, and less adherence to conventional norms of masculinity (but rather alternative norms of masculinity). This marketing-created gamer culture is dying, and the female- and queer-inclusive indie games community is a massive threat to them.

Catharsis Cat, while the attacks on gamers that are going around are against this forum's rules and may be... indecorous, I can totally understand why people, especially people whose friends, partners, and families are being brutally harassed in the name of gamers, are saying them.
 

Matt.Ceb

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Have you seen some of the nasty balanket statement being thrown around at "gamers" recently?
Oh, boo-hoo.

The gaming "community" has allowed to let a hateful, angry, misogynistic, racist, LGBT-phobic and downright hateful cesspool fester and thrive in their midst and now they're reaping the spoils of bullshit like "Not all are like that!" and "Boys will be boys!" and "They should grow a thicker skin!"


Especially the last one is just delicious. After years of the wider gaming "public" telling mistreated people of all walks of life to "grow a thicker skin!" and "not take things on the internet seriously." they're now flipping out when being confronted by the reactions to the monster they created.

Where's the thicker skin?
Where's the "not taking internet comments seriously"?
Where's the "perspective?

...

Sorry, no sympathy here, at all.
I game. I've gamed since the early 90s.
I will continue to game.

But the current "gamer culture" can go and cease to exist in a hot, cleansing fire of open and direct and unflinching scrutiny.


[ETA: I actually think that roleplayers really came out ahead on this one. The reactions to FATAL, to RaHoWa, to Wreathu, to CthuluTech. The way that the compny responsible for "Gypsies" is now on of the forefront of inclusiveness. The way that DnD5th addressed inclusiveness. The fact that asshole-designers and -writers are being pushed away more and more and that old and ingrained ideas are being questioned ever more strongly... All is a sign of a more progressive and less whiny fanbase in general. We had our fair share of backlash and "both-sides" and "blame the victims" assholes, too, but they're being driven away more and more often and more and more strongly. And that's GOOD. Because the catpiss-man stereotype needs to be expunged not just by good spin and PR, but also by changing the games and the people who play those games. And if that means losing the bigots and the regressives? ... Good!]
 
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CLAVDIVS

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yes, BUT... this doesn't mean "gamer culture" is dying.
I would rather hope not. (EDIT: What I mean is, I hope it's changing for the better.) As the article explains, "extinction burst" is a psychological term describing a reaction to the fading out of a behavior-reward connection in the brain, not the die-off of a species or group. It's one of the things that makes addiction so hard to beat.
 
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Imban

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Where's the thicker skin?
Where's the "not taking internet comments seriously"?
Where's the "perspective"?
I would hope this is, y'know, just different people saying different things. I still believe very much that having thick skin and not taking internet hyperbole and flammenwerfing too seriously is a virtue, for instance. However, empathy requires me to acknowledge that it might bother other people.

Granted there's definitely some people in there who love being assholes but can't take the heat. Hopefully this provides time for some self-reflection from them!
 

Azaael

Have you the strength?
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Have you seen some of the nasty balanket statement being thrown around at "gamers" recently? (some of the stuff in #describe a gamer in four words, would get you banned here fo group attacks)

While there are certainly some people who are trying to flip the scipt, I am pretty sure there are a non-trivial percentage that feels like they are being attacked.

Do keep in mind that different people view and define the term gamer differently and don't see "we're not bashing people who like video games, but gamers" to pretty much be the same thing.
I have to agree with this. I don't like group attacks. I don't like making group attacks. I don't like when others make group attacks, and I don't like when I get group attacks made against me.

'Grow a Thicker Skin' is never right to say to anyone. Not to people getting harassment, and not to gamers, either. Eye for an eye bullshit needs to *stop*. It goes nowhere good. I'm able to let stuff roll off of me, but what about a perfectly nice but maybe very sensitive person who likes games suddenly being told their trash? It's not good from any angle. Any of it. It wasn't good when the tiny minority vile fringe spews hate and harassment because that hurts like hell, and it's not good others are blanketing gamers as being like the minority.

Not all of us 'let it thrive.' I don't even think most of us did. There have been people trying to change it. (Look what Riot did with tribunals, for example, and they *helped.* A lot. Which showed where the majority lies.)

I can understand why some are being said, yes, but that doesn't mean it's *right* or that I have to agree with it.

Eye for an eye, blanket statementing, anything like that is never right. Never. Sometimes it's understandable when it happens, yes-but attacking the whole just is never right.
 
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