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'gamergate' is bad and all, but lets not forget the REAL victims here

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Spider Proletariat

Fascism At It's Basest
Validated User
To be real blunt, some of yours were only marginally better.
I am not saying you're with or against anybody, and frankly I have no idea where you got the impression I was. My whole argument, for the whole thread, has been "people feeling insulted by this stuff have been making a bigger deal of it than it needs to be." You nor Pillsy nor anyone else in this thread are "part of the problem" or whatever you think you're being labelled as, the absolute worst I think anyone in this thread has been doing is, like I said, creating white noise. But if you really want to be insulted or feel like you're being forced into choosing sides or whatever your aim is here, then I guess I can't stop you.
 
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Quornix

God of Wine
Validated User
So, I made a comment about what this thread has been since the beginning, then I went back to confirm (after I posted). I misremembered how the thread started, thinking that the initial focus was about #gamergate, not some open letter to gaming media to knock it off, and that letter sits solidly on the problematic end of objecting. Matt.Ceb started doing the sort of thing I don't like, but he backed off, which is exactly what I want. I didn't keep rereading past there, but I know I lost track of the thread, and was making my comments based on faulty memories.

I apologize. Hopefully, some of my comments on other subjects were more valuable, as I tried to make sure the A vs. B argument wasn't the only topic I was replying to (even though that is, in fact, where the thread started).
 
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Plumy Namesake

Social Justice Commoner
Validated User
That's a far different statement than the "you're either part of the solution or part of the problem" card. That just says if you're working for the other side actively, you're with the other side. To which the proper response is "Well, duh."

It still, however, accepts the potential for people who are just not involved.
Let's say belive the following.

Misogyny is a problem.
Misogyny is fueled by a passive audience, because misogynists think silence is acceptance.

How would you describe the role of the audience, if you weren't allowed to say that they were a part of the problem? If you don't have an answer to that, you are effectively saying that people shouldn't believe this, or at least shouldn't express their belief.

(Btw, this is coming from someone who 98 % of the time fails to speak up, because of lacking time and energy)
 

Strange Visitor

Grumpy Grognard
Validated User
Let's say belive the following.

Misogyny is a problem.
Misogyny is fueled by a passive audience, because misogynists think silence is acceptance.

How would you describe the role of the audience, if you weren't allowed to say that they were a part of the problem? If you don't have an answer to that, you are effectively saying that people shouldn't believe this, or at least shouldn't express their belief.

(Btw, this is coming from someone who 98 % of the time fails to speak up, because of lacking time and energy)
I'd say the statement then defines "problem" in a way to be oppressive is what I'd say. And does so, in part, to deliberately try to compel people into action by passing off their own expectations to others, and the questioning their morality if they don't.

So, yeah, even if true (and I don't necessarily accept the premise) I don't accept the statement as anything but to extend one's expectations on moral actors to others in such a way as to demonize them if they don't buy-in. As such I deny it as a valid usage, and in fact consider it, in and of itself, unethical.
 

Burgonet

Retired user
Validated User
A choice between calling in law enforcement due to a sheer volume of personal harassment and feeling harassed due to a Youtube video doesn't sound like a choice.
It reads and sounds like a false dichotomy.

If you feel hurt (there is a saying that cannot be repeated here I believe is common parlance in the broader fora medium) by being labelled an X or a Y, that's one thing.
Let me know when being characterised negatively as a 'gamer' inspires the FBI to talk about a need for cultural change and better policing.

That is the absurdity here, from a legal and law enforcement perspective.
Draw what conclusion as you will about those who would care to shy away from these facts, and instead focus on themselves.
Narcissism is how I'd charitably view such a seeming inability to look at some hard truths.
 

Sigrid Hex

Social Justice Valkyrie
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Misogyny is fueled by a passive audience, because misogynists think silence is acceptance.
No, misogyny is fueled by misogynistic idiots. I honestly don't really care what they think, or what kind of delusions they make up to justify themselves. They are obviously wrong. Shifting blame to the 'audience' is, imho, completely unacceptable.
 

Iozz-Sothoth

Cruel Angel's Viva Voce
Staff member
Moderator
RPGnet Member
Validated User
I don't think this thread is going anywhere good, so I'm going to close it pending further notice.
 
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