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jacobkosh

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

Sure, if you feel shame about your hobby (which is troubling in its own right)
He might not feel shame so much for the hobby as for patronizing a store that looks like a breeding ground for sweaty pedophiles. I'm lucky in that where I live both the seedy comic store and the seedy game store have been run out of business by competitors with clean, well-lit, well-organized stores with friendly staff, but there are still plenty of the former out there - with doors covered in lurid, sun-faded pinup posters and surly staff who don't want to be dragged away from their Magic game in the back - and when I've lived in towns where those were the only option, I've done my shopping online instead.
 

Codename: Omega

New member
Banned
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

All I know is that I haven't enjoyed playing and tinkering with D&D as much as I am with 4e, since I played OD&D. To me at least, that makes it a wild success, and I don't really care if it sells more or less than 3e in the process.
 

DarkDungeons

The GM Is Your Friend.
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

All I know is that I haven't enjoyed playing and tinkering with D&D as much as I am with 4e, since I played OD&D. To me at least, that makes it a wild success, and I don't really care if it sells more or less than 3e in the process.
This is exactly how I feel. It's like 4e brought the game up from it's roots where I found it back then, and was reinvented to deliver that same feeling to the person I am today.
 

Codename: Omega

New member
Banned
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

This is exactly how I feel. It's like 4e brought the game up from it's roots where I found it back then, and was reinvented to deliver that same feeling to the person I am today.
The funny thing is that when people were talking about what 4e would include before it was released, I thought it sounded terrible. Then I played it, and realised how awesome it was and saw the potential and haven't looked back.
 

smug

Better you better you bet
Validated User
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

I imagine that from WotC's point of view there are plenty of worse outcomes than people disagreeing about the specific degree of 4E's runaway success.
His point would appear to be that it isn't a runaway success but rather that it is a success, and that demanding it's a runaway success to feel good about it is a mistake because so few years have been runaway successes for (A)D&D..

All 4e fans should really care about is that the game is commercially sustainable, which Goodman is saying it is. He doesn't have the actual 4e sales figures, of course. The people that do, again of course, could be argued to have an incentive to portray them in the most favourable light*, but they're not going to make them public (because the big companies pretty much never do). Goodman may also be measuring "dollars going into the hobby because of edition X", which for 3.x included a lot of 3PPs and for 4e doesn't (wouldn't have done in 1982, either, but I guess that TSR sales were fairly big then).

Anyhow, Goodman is saying nice things about 4e's commercial performance, for sure. He doesn't know sales through Amazon and there's no real anecdotal knowledge to pick up about that, so far as I can see. He also makes the point that the DDI subscription model is a new element of the commercial plan.

*Scott Rouse and Mike Mearls seem like good blokes, that communicate with the fans regularly. I don't think they can disseminate information that would be deemed harmful to their employer though, if such information exists, but that's the same for all of us that have jobs.
 
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macd21

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

The problem with this essay is that it is, in fact, wrong. Wizards has sold more 4E product than they sold 3E product by this point in time after the 3E release. However, there has not been as much third party product, so it might balance out.

In fact, guy from Wizards way back last year said over on ENWorld that 3.5 moved more than 3.0 and 4.0 more than 3.5.
I believe the point of mister Goodman's article was to refute claims that 4ed's performance had dropped after the initial release of the corebooks. The post on ENWorld that you refer to is about (IIRC) the sales of the corebook, which were beyond expectations. However, there has been speculation that after the initial surge of interest in the game, sales dropped significantly. Basically, people were curious about the game, but decided it wasn't any good so didn't buy any supplements. There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence floating around that retailers and distributors were ordering ever smaller numbers of supplements.

While he doesn't have access to WotC sales figures, he can at least refute some of the rumours going around and point out that you shouldn't compare 4ed with 3.X at its height. Odds are that supplement orders are down, but probably not as much as people have feared/claimed (there is a recession on).
 

ignis fatuus

Retired User
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

Since the post by Goodman garnered quite a lot of negative reactions, from people who thought he was an arrogant prick, when it was first posted, one of the guys of the Kobold Quarterly did a nice long interview with mr Goodman which can be read here. I thought it was even more interesting than the initial post, so have a look!
 

morgonstjarnan

New member
Banned
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

Since the post by Goodman garnered quite a lot of negative reactions, from people who thought he was an arrogant prick, when it was first posted, one of the guys of the Kobold Quarterly did a nice long interview with mr Goodman which can be read here. I thought it was even more interesting than the initial post, so have a look!
Thanks for the interesting link. I can't understand why people would get angry with him, though. I think he seems very sympathetic and knowledgeable in his writing about 4E.
 

Mostlyjoe

is plotting your doom.
Validated User
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

Mr. Goodman is correct, a store can be a good community center. But that's the point. A good store goes out of it's way to support not just one game or one type of hobby, they support the full range of options. I have the weird luck of having 2 gaming stores within 5 miles of each other in my town.

The newer one was started up as a reaction to some of the behavior of the old location and staff. They have a wider open store and it's well lit and generally very clean. The older store stocks more RPG product and generally also does some side comics business as well. All that and we have one huge comic only shop in town. It's weird but nice.

That said, the only reason why I frequent the older store is the selection and most the time I'm in and out. The other store makes me want to hang around, sit down, chat with people, relax. That store features loads of mini games, of various type and not just Warhammer. He actually makes me want to play some of these other games!

I think a new generation of LGS's are going to have to be more open minded to all the business they could bring in. Focus on open friendly areas to play and keep a smaller selection of popular product with the option to special order. Atmosthere is key.
 

Nahualt

A badder Santa
Validated User
Re: Goodman on succes of 4E...

Since the post by Goodman garnered quite a lot of negative reactions, from people who thought he was an arrogant prick, when it was first posted, one of the guys of the Kobold Quarterly did a nice long interview with mr Goodman which can be read here. I thought it was even more interesting than the initial post, so have a look!
TYVM. From that article when asked about if he likes 4E ,Goodman says:

Yes, it’s a fun game, but I personally prefer earlier editions of D&D. I’m not really the target market for 4E. I also recognize that my personal preferences are not the way to run a business. Goodman Games will always publish old-school products because that’s the most fun for me, but it’s 4E that pays the bills. Take the market for 1E and add a couple zeroes to get to the people who still play 3E, then add several more zeroes and you’re up to the 4E market.
This is a huge hint for 3PP companies.
 
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