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How can I convince my group that d20 is badwrong fun?

Bootleg Girl

Member
RPGnet Member
Banned
I have a problem with my roleplaying group. Basically put, they do roleplay, fairly well. But they love d20. It holds them back from roleplaying to their full potention, and I know for sure that it keeps me from running games well, because I'm limited by, "oh, I want a bad guy who can do this, but they'd have to be 16th level and the PCs are only 7th level..." Plus I just hate the system overall.

I know I'm not likely to pursuade them. And no I can't just leave the group, these people are my friends, they're very good roleplayers, and even if I were to leave (which I would not do), my chances of finding another group where I live are slightly less than my chances of being eaten by terrorist BASIC programmers. From Uzbekistan.

One of my players has a very well-reasoned argument for using d20, which I'd like deconstructed. He claims it allows roleplaying and can emulate any genre, although he prefers not to emulate specific media like books or movies. He thinks that other systems have bad character advancement because incrementing skills by one are annoying. Most of my other players share these various views.

As I said, this group is excellent, and they're not just hack-and-slashers. They do roleplay - but they are held back by their love for d20. They tried Unisystem and hated it - and I know I probably can't talk them out of d20, but I'll have to do my best. Any advice?
 

teucer

roll
Validated User
Um, what?

No system gets in the way of roleplaying. If they're good roleplayers, and they have a system they like, you shouldn't mess with what works.
 

MikeJW

Retired User
From what you've said I'd love to be in your group regardless of the system. I dont care for d20 but if everybody else in the group loves it and are good players, what's your problem?
 

teucer

roll
Validated User
Psuedopod said:
One of my players has a very well-reasoned argument for using d20, which I'd like deconstructed. He claims it allows roleplaying and can emulate any genre
I suppose you could point out that d20 is not unique in this. Nor is it very good at it... but then, it is like all generic systems, for it (as the old adage goes) does nothing well but nothing poorly.
 

DariusSolluman

Active member
Validated User
I'd also counter point with the 'I want X, but that's level 16 and I'm just level 7!' for D&D can do anything.

Or try and trick them into reading System Does Matter. Which convinced me to start looking at different systems with a very different goal. :)

I'm not sold on GNS- but I also no longer consider Invisible Immersive as the One True Way, which seems like the default 'mature gamer' end point.
 

Shameless Poser

Goombalicious
This is time for my daily plug for Mutants and Masterminds. It's about 70% d20, and should solve just about all of your complaints about overpowered villains and whatnot. It's a neat system, intuitive if you're used to D&D, and much more flexible than just about anything else that I've seen come out of using a twenty-sided die. Only problem is that when emulating some genres it can be awfully... bland. Excusing that, though, it seems like a decent halfway meeting point between you and your players.
 

Emirikol the Chaotic

New member
Banned
Just suggest a game you like better. If they want to, they'll try it. Emphasize that you'll run games more often if you get to choose the rules. Most players like to play and aren't absolutely dogmatic about sticking to their favorite systems as long as they're not GMing.

Most importantly, though, do a REALLY GOOD JOB running Your Favorite Game if you get the chance. Always leave 'em wanting more.
 
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Halloween Jack

Equipped with Bubble Lead
Validated User
Woah, woah. I like d20, but I don't believe for a minute that it can emulate any genre. In fact, I only use it for games that can be defined as "pulp" in a very general sense of the word.
 

Bradford C. Walker

New member
Banned
Psuedopod said:
I have a problem with my roleplaying group. Basically put, they do roleplay, fairly well. But they love d20. It holds them back from roleplaying to their full potention, and I know for sure that it keeps me from running games well, because I'm limited by, "oh, I want a bad guy who can do this, but they'd have to be 16th level and the PCs are only 7th level..." Plus I just hate the system overall.
Then quit the group and find another that will play non-d20 RPGs. Your dislike of the system in no way entitles you to persuade the rest into do as you prefer, as it will cause nothing but problems.
I know I'm not likely to pursuade them. And no I can't just leave the group, these people are my friends, they're very good roleplayers, and even if I were to leave (which I would not do), my chances of finding another group where I live are slightly less than my chances of being eaten by terrorist BASIC programmers. From Uzbekistan.
You're already--by your own admission--in a situation where they aren't going to go your way, so trying to make them do what you know that they don't want to do is a pointless waste of time. Play the d20 stuff or don't play at all: it's that simple.
One of my players has a very well-reasoned argument for using d20, which I'd like deconstructed. He claims it allows roleplaying and can emulate any genre, although he prefers not to emulate specific media like books or movies. He thinks that other systems have bad character advancement because incrementing skills by one are annoying. Most of my other players share these various views.
That's nice. You're well-informed of their position, and you're still trying to get them do otherwise? Answer the clue phone: they won't buy it, so stop trying to sell them what they don't want.
As I said, this group is excellent, and they're not just hack-and-slashers. They do roleplay - but they are held back by their love for d20. They tried Unisystem and hated it - and I know I probably can't talk them out of d20, but I'll have to do my best. Any advice?
They're not held back. They're just fine. You're the problem because you're not giving your friends the respect that they deserve, and it's due to your wanting to not use a system that you don't like. This is not your call to make; this is one that the group as a whole makes, and the others outvoted you. Take it like a man and either play on or get out.
 

RSC

Retired User
Psuedopod said:
He claims it allows roleplaying
True.

and can emulate any genre,
Arguable. It does it probably as well as any other system.

He thinks that other systems have bad character advancement because incrementing skills by one are annoying.
Personal reaction - can't be wrong. Although you might ask for clarification, because d20 does increment skills by one. BRP is one of the very few games I can think of that doesn't. Actually, I guess Palladium games don't either.
 
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