How would/ did you fix GURPS?

Professor Phobos

Sweeper of Arcane Lore
Validated User
I've liked the sourcebooks for a while now, but I've always been scared off by the system. Tried making a World War Two character with GURPS LITE and it seemed really clunky...(especially the -40 point cap). I don't particular mind the combat rules- I usually ignore those things instinctually. But I need a good, generic character creation system for all my world-building desires, and GURPS would seem to be the ideal game for that. But Character Creation seems...well, broken, especially in light of the thread on how broken GURPS is.

So how would I go about fixing GURPS character creation, or is it fine the way it is?(Provided I exercise GM judgement and put careful limits on what's allowed and not allowed)

Would simply adding a mound of attributes help? (I've always liked Silhouette's 10 attributes, but I can't do target number systems.) If I added attributes and subtracted the relevent disadvantages, what else would I need to monkey with?(Point costs, etc.)
 

Hunter Green

Curmudgeon
Use something else

The problems are, IMO, too fundamental. Adding on to it just magnifies it. Better to use some other system designed without the problems from the ground up.

Fortunately, GURPS worldbooks are easy to use in other systems. A significant fraction of their sales are to those who don't use the rules.
 

Moochava

Your Movement Sucks
Eh, screw GURPS. Before my old computer exploded I had forty a some-odd page tome that was a serviceable fix for GURPS, adding and balancing new stats, rearranging skills, and fixing the probability curve. Five years ago I would have shared my masterpiece with you. Now, I'll tell you that if you want to run a realistic game, use BRP, Silhouette, or Blue Planet. They've all got their problems, but none of them are as fundamentally crippled as GURPS.

Don't end up like me! Don't try to fix GURPS!

---------------
Kyle Marquis
 

Curtis

Enlightened Zero
Professor Phobos said:
I've liked the sourcebooks for a while now, but I've always been scared off by the system. Tried making a World War Two character with GURPS LITE and it seemed really clunky...(especially the -40 point cap). I don't particular mind the combat rules- I usually ignore those things instinctually. But I need a good, generic character creation system for all my world-building desires, and GURPS would seem to be the ideal game for that. But Character Creation seems...well, broken, especially in light of the thread on how broken GURPS is.

So how would I go about fixing GURPS character creation, or is it fine the way it is?(Provided I exercise GM judgement and put careful limits on what's allowed and not allowed)

Would simply adding a mound of attributes help? (I've always liked Silhouette's 10 attributes, but I can't do target number systems.) If I added attributes and subtracted the relevent disadvantages, what else would I need to monkey with?(Point costs, etc.)
Have you taken a look at BESM? If that seemed too simple maybe try Fuzion.
 

Jürgen Hubert

aka "Herr Doktor Hubert"
Validated User
It would be easier answering you if you told us exactly how you think GURPS is broken...

You say that you consider adding more attributes, so there must be something that you don't like about the existing ones.

"I'm the boss! I need the info!"
 

Andrew Martin

Retired User
Professor Phobos wrote:
> How would/ did you fix GURPS?

Why not use Fudge? After all, one of the writers of GURPS world books, Steffan O'Sullivan, wrote Fudge to fix the problems of GURPS.
 

Jürgen Hubert

aka "Herr Doktor Hubert"
Validated User
FUDGE might not be to everyone's liking - I, for example, like the general concept of FUDGE, but I'm put off by the system's "grainy" attribute and skill levels.

Of course, I realize that GURPS is also not to everyone's liking. I only need the specific reasons here...
 

Andrew Martin

Retired User
Jürgen Hubert wrote:
> FUDGE might not be to everyone's liking - I, for example, like the general concept of FUDGE, but I'm put off by the system's "grainy" attribute and skill levels.

Have you checked out Thirds? It's a way of tripling the number of levels for attributes and skills. It might be an effective solution to your problem.
Here is Lee's solution to this "problem":
Check out my article on granularity issues at:

http://members.aol.com/hudarklord/FUDGE/edge_v2_and_granularity.pdf

It shows several methods to deal with the Thirds nomenclature other than rolling a Thirds die. Some of them are diceless methods to deal with the Thirds nomenclature.

The simplest diced method is to roll a single FUDGE die at the beginning of a scene and apply the Thirds system once and only once to all Thirds modified traits.

So if you have Traits of Fair+, Good+, and Poor- you'd roll a DF, maybe get a + and the two traits with a + are at +1 for the rest of the combat.

There are other methods. Many diced, others this simpler, and others diceless.
Lee's site is at: http://members.aol.com/hudarklord/FUDGE/.
I hope that helps!
 

Ghost

Elitist British Snob
Validated User
Okay assuming for a moment you asked about GURPS because you wanted to know about GURPS and not other systems (come on people their was a thread about this just last week remember, answer the question he asked not the one you think he should have asked), If you find the Character generation a bit clunky try the Character generation PC programe recently released by SJG. I picked up a copy about a week ago and found I can generate characters in about one third the time. The programe handles the maths and most the dull bits for you.
If you don't like the -40 point cap to disads, either drop it (if you are the GM) or ask your GM if you can drop it (if your not). You can turn it off in the programe anyway. Also one tip, if you are creating experianced characters turn off the automatic aging feature by removing the tick from the "Check skills" box under the configuration menu. I am the GM in our group and when doing the PCs arch rival on this prog I forgot to turn off the automatic aging and it made him 179 based on his skills (he is a 400 point character!).

Ghost
 

Dave E

Registered User
Validated User
Like the people say, if you don't like the -40 limit, drop it.

My group have been using GURPS for years (and yes, we have a lot of house rules) and we've steadied out to a -100 cap (we tried unlimited for a while, where I munchkined out at -198 + Quirks). To be honest, it is plenty easy to create a complete no-hoper on -40 (On The Edge, Impulsive, Bad Temper, Pyromania is a total of 40 just sticking to the Basic Set, and I don't think a PC with that set would last long), a bigger limit just requires the GM to exercise some caution and check over PCs after char gen, other than that it works fine. The other thing this does for us is allow us more points to apply to the bunch of homebrew stuff we've added on (too much to go into here, though).

However, quick fixes that anyone can use:

Shift Hit Points to ST and Fatigue to HT, this always seemed more reasonable to me and it is semi official (suggested in Compendium I). This does bring back some use to ST, particularly in a high tech setting, and stops mages all looking like Arnie.

Create a derived stat of Perception, based on the average of IQ and HT (Alertness and Acute Senses would then apply to this), a fix I got off a web article years ago and have now lost the source. This reduces the dependence on IQ somewhat and means fighter types actually notice stuff. Round up or down depending on generosity (I round down). The rationale is that noticing stuff is not simply a matter of mental acuity, physical condition is also a real factor and is best derived from HT in GURPS.

Modify Will. If it is simply IQ +/- Will modifiers then it is too easy to get a very high Will roll. The fix we use is to base Will at 10, with +1 for every full 2 points of IQ above 10 (because we figure being smart does help), then modified by Strong/Weak Will (reducing the value of Weak Will to -4 is a common house rule all over, by the way).

Another trick we use is buying Disadvantages with a built in Will modifier on them (to allow the strong willed hero with the fatal flaw). Simply adjust the point value by 20% per point of will adjustment, so Bad Temper with a -3 on Will saves would be worth -16 points. We find this allows quite a lot of fine tuning.

Other than that we use a lot of specific advantages and stuff along the lines of Animal Empathy to give bonuses on specific skill types so that we can build great pilots without great DX and great scientists without them being able to do everything!

Hope that helps,

Dave E
 
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