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If there were only a simpler FantasyCraft...

Golden Guy

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It seems to have some interesting ideas (I like action dice and specialties, for instance), but, the whole thing seems just a touch overcomplicated. I don't know if anyone else feels similarly.
Will they ever make a simpler version? If they (or someone else) did, what would you keep, what would you scrap??
 

ludomastro

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*sniffing sounds*
*ludomastro emerges from his cave*
*takes the bait*

There are a LOT of fiddly bits, truly. However, they aren't as melded into the system as most people think - in my experience at any rate.

What specifically do you feel is overcomplicated?
 

Tango Samurai

Dance Warrior
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On the Crafty forums we call it "Crafty-crunch". Not super crunchy, but the crunch that's there is there for a reason.

Stripping out anything is written into the rules. Take what you want, let campaign sliders do the rest.
 

Golden Guy

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*sniffing sounds*
*ludomastro emerges from his cave*
*takes the bait*

There are a LOT of fiddly bits, truly. However, they aren't as melded into the system as most people think - in my experience at any rate.

What specifically do you feel is overcomplicated?
A lot of my issue is probably with character generation. Trying to build a character, there are lots of choices, but actually picking the good option needs a fair understanding of the rules that govern what the options do. So it felt kind of like the rulebook was written backwards, and needed the chargen rules at the end. Or, some pregenerated archetypes maybe.
Its thing seems to be that you have all these character abilities, but they're silod up so that you get some from race, some from specialty, some from human ability, some from skills, some from feats, and often you end up with chains where you take a Specialty which gives you a Feat which gives you a Skill. Seems like you could sort of get the same effect if you'd just had something like point-buy and people picked off a single list, instead of having abilities that are sort of half-built arrays you try and join together to build your concept. If that makes sense.
 
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ludomastro

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A lot of my issue is probably with character generation. Trying to build a character, there are lots of choices, but actually picking the good option needs a fair understanding of the rules that govern what the options do. So it felt kind of like the rulebook was written backwards, and needed the chargen rules at the end. Or, some pregenerated archetypes maybe.
Its thing seems to be that you have all these character abilities, but they're silod up so that you get some from race, some from specialty, some from human ability, some from skills, some from feats, and often you end up with chains where you take a Specialty which gives you a Feat which gives you a Skill. Seems like you could sort of get the same effect if you'd just had something like point-buy and people picked off a single list, instead of having abilities that are sort of half-built arrays you try and join together to build your concept. If that makes sense.
It does indeed make sense. My former D&D group (3.5 if anyone cares) had much the same reaction when we switched over to Fantasy Craft. However, once you get past the initial learning curve, the system rewards you with some surprising options. As to pre-gens, I never run the game without 'em. You can find the "official" pre-gens here. Look under Fantasy Craft Downloads about halfway down the page. They are in their own section titled Iconics (Pre-Gens) and the official name is Fantasy Craft Iconic Characters.

The same page has a whole host of fan created support (just above the Fantasy Craft section). One guy even put together a character creation cheat sheet as well.

Hopefully that will help.
 
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Golden Guy

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Thanks ludomastro. These are interesting.

(though one weird thing I did notice, looking over these - the assassin doesn't have Sneak as a skill...checked his class and that's not actually a class skill for assassins. Though he does have Blend).
 

Silvercat Moonpaw

Quadruped Transhuman
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(though one weird thing I did notice, looking over these - the assassin doesn't have Sneak as a skill...checked his class and that's not actually a class skill for assassins. Though he does have Blend).
Assassin is trickly named: it is technically correct in that an "assassin" is anyone who specifically targets a person to kill and thus could disguise themselves as an average person and walk right up to you on the street and knife you, but it doesn't fit the image of assassins that popular culture has created recently that they sneak around behind the scenes and kill from the shadows. The Assassin should have been named something like Infiltrator to remove the confusion.
 

ludomastro

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Assassin is trickly named: it is technically correct in that an "assassin" is anyone who specifically targets a person to kill and thus could disguise themselves as an average person and walk right up to you on the street and knife you, but it doesn't fit the image of assassins that popular culture has created recently that they sneak around behind the scenes and kill from the shadows. The Assassin should have been named something like Infiltrator to remove the confusion.
I blame Assassin's Creed as the most recent example of the pop culture expectation. Probably doesn't help that "The Hand" (official pre-gen assassin) is standing on a rooftop wearing gear similar to Altair.

All characters get two origin skills, so you can remove the lack of the Sneak skill pretty easily if you like.

EDIT: Origin skills are always considered class skills regardless of the class you pick so they ensure your character will always be able to use two skills that are relevant to his/her background. Some Origin options (Specialties in particular) also include either a specific third origin skill or a bonus third skill of your choice.
 
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Golden Guy

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OK thank you for the replies, guys. Really what I was trying to do here was find what good ideas are there in the whole of FC, not bash on it for being crunchy, but my fault that I've failed to convey that overly well in the OP I think. I appreciate your civil tone with my newbie complaints :eek:
 

ludomastro

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No worries.

To your original point: I'd save Action Dice if nothing else. I enjoy them but I also like the way it adds some narrative control back to the players hands. That it provides them with the chance to be awesome is even better. I'm particularly fond of the way criticals and errors work as well.
 
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