• The Infractions Forum is available for public view. Please note that if you have been suspended you will need to open a private/incognito browser window to view it.

[inexplicable necro] How to make love in LARP?

hoog

Retired User
Re: How to make love in LARP?

hey there :)


I've played 4 LARPs here in France, and one included rules for IC sex

we all had envelopes, each with a label ("refined", "perverted", "first time"...)

when "having sex", you chose one of your envelopes, and handed one of the papers it contained to your partner, without reading it yourself

the paper described what the person experienced, sometimes revealing things about your character (typically a strange tattoo or something)

there was also some flavor text, and some ideas about consequences (noise, one person storming out or crying...)

the other person did the same for you

the label on the envelope chosen by the other person told something about the character as well, obviously

both times I used these rules myself, there was some mild flirting before exchanging envelopes

as far as I know, everything was very consensual (so no "rape")

I should also mention that these rules were very clearly explained beforehand

everyone knew that love and sex would play a big part in that game


one other LARP I've read about but have not played involves tying ribbons to each other's ankles, with different colors meaning different things

in this case, there is a color for rape

but, again, everyone knows about it when they start the game


hope that helps
 

Nath

Registered User
Validated User
Re: How to make love in LARP?

I'd sugest you discuss this with the organisers and see what they say. Trying to present what i imagine their side might be: (devil's advocate hat on)

- they may have advertised the larp has being for adults / including adult content. Clearly not well enough since you didn't notice, but they may have done it somewhat.

- the simulation method they have chosen sounds awkward and uncomfortable. However, given they wanted to simulate rape and not loving sex, that sounds suitably immersive. I also note it's 'safe' in as much as it involves only necks.

- They may have had safe words - maybe they thought they didn't need to explicitly explain them if they are common in that play culture. Even if they didn't have them, saying 'Off-game. Stop. I don't want to do this for real' would work, so there is a de facto safe word at least.

- some people on here have suggested people are playing a larp to play out their fantasies? isn't that relatively common? I mean, don't some people play retro-adventuring larps because they want to play out heroic fantasies?

just wondering, does the larp in question for a website?
 

RobMcDiarmid

P6: I know what I like
Re: How to make love in LARP?

- some people on here have suggested people are playing a larp to play out their fantasies? isn't that relatively common? I mean, don't some people play retro-adventuring larps because they want to play out heroic fantasies?
Playing out your "I'm like Gandalf." or "I'm like Conan." heroic fantasies by destroying lots of orcs - pretty dang harmless.

Exploring sexual fantasies with the larp chick in the cat ears who keeps staring at you during meal times - pretty dang harmless as long as both sides are completely comfortable with it.

Using a plot-driven rape scene to cajole a not-100%-willing player to participate in your rape fantasy - something entirely different. And unacceptable. And it could lead to criminal charges if someone felt violated enough. And it could badly tarnish the reputation of the hobby in general, just like the "I killed myself because my character died" stories of the '80s and the "They pretend to be vampires and they really drink blood." stories of the '90s.

I don't want the '00s story about larp to be: "They forced me to pretend I was being raped and I didn't know how to stop it."

I don't know about you, but I'm extremely happy with the fact that the amount of females in the hobby in my area has grown tremendously over the last 5 to 10 years. I don't want this kind of thing to reverse that trend.

That's why I'm very happy to see that Reeta is approaching this situation calmly and doing lots of research.

And I agree, Nath, that it's possible there was a reasonable effort made to communicate what was going to happen, and that an accidental miscommunication occurred that may, in part, be the fault of the friend that brought her to the game not telling her everything he or she knew about what to expect.

That's why I recommended contacting the organizers first before "hanging them high".

Yes, I'm fuming, Ryan. But I don't want Reeta's reaction to be to post on a bunch of forums something to the effect of "Oh my God. Don't go to _____'s games. I went to one and they forced me to play out a rape scene by rubbing necks with this creepy guy and I didn't know how to get out of the scene without looking like a total prudish b*."

Because once you get a few statements like that about a few isolated incidents, they get conflated into a generalization. At which point you end up with the situation where Susy and Jon are playing a tabletop RPG at a game convention. Jon says "Hey Susy, you seemed to really enjoy playing that elven ranger. Do you want to come out to a live-action game where you can do that for real?" And Susy responds "Why? So you can pretend to rape me? I hear that's what they do at those games."

I really don't want that conversation to occur.
 

David Artman

Designer and Producer
Validated User
Re: How to make love in LARP?

And I agree, Nath, that it's possible there was a reasonable effort made to communicate what was going to happen, and that an accidental miscommunication occurred that may, in part, be the fault of the friend that brought her to the game not telling her everything he or she knew about what to expect.
I was gonna steer clear of this thread (which we've done almost to death before--Search function is powerful voodoo). But this general notion, twice repeated, bothered me (I just happened to pick this one--nothing personal).

This is simply BS, folks. Every game I've ever attended had some sort of release form and a comprehensive warning (in these cases, about risks of running in woods and being smacked with a foam weapon). You read the whole thing, initialing individual key points (park rules, safety, no touching without consent) and signed the bottom.

There is no "misunderstanding" around such a subject, regardless of taboo levels (and they're HIGH in the US, as most of us know). Those organizers were simply incompetent--AT BEST--and should NOT be responsible for a game which engages such risky topics. Period.

At worst, they were just what they sound like: "Ooo, new girl, better get the jollies soon, 'cause she might not last." I mean, damn--you got everyone wandering off into the bushes (to simulate a sacking of a villiage? Yeah, right, THAT's realistic simulation) and, gee, there is the last, lone, new girl... and, oh look, I'm your friendly neighborhood "rape guide," here to explain it all at the last second, if you'll just come along into the woods with me, dear.

Sounds like that "LARP" had the same intention as Seven Minutes In Heaven, but without the forthrightness and giggling. If I were writing an article and even deigned to mention that troupe, it would be to bury it and make a public mockery of its "organizers."

That wasn't a "LARP" and, if properly framed as what it WAS in a public article, wouldn't impact the general opinion of LARPing (which can't really get much worse). It was a group-grope in costumes.
 

Jared Thaler

Retired User
Re: How to make love in LARP?

First, just want to jump on the band wagon, and say Reeta, what you experienced was 100% unacceptable on the part of the LARP organiser.

I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume they tried to inform everyone, and that this was a case of failed communication.

You know what, it is still completely unacceptable. Some mistakes are never permitted, anything surrounding simulated sex, especially simulated rape, and failed communication / negotiation is 100% unacceptable. Especially the absence of safewords / absence of staff oversite is not acceptable.

Second, on to what I really have to contribute:

IC vs OOC relationships in LARP and other RP venues
(since IC/OOC relationship disconnect is not specific to LARP. You have not seen drama till you've watched 20-40 teenagers attempt to carry out long distance OOC relationships, while acting out IC relationships with one or more other people in an RP Forum... :) Yay Dramarama.)

Every OOC couple has a threshold, depending in part on he tolerances of the couple, and in part on whether they are both gamers or not.

Some OOC couples look at it and say "It's all make believe, no different than if he were watching porn." Some say "I don't care if it's all make believe, I don't even like him watching porn, it makes me feel like he doesn't feel I'm enough." And some are simply open relationship polyamorous, and don't care who their partner sleeps with as long as they get veto rights. (And I suspect a couple of people in my current LARP may have accepted that they are married to someone who is a professional actor, and see this as no different from what would happen if their SO were given a part in a movie where he was a love interest of some hot chick they never met before.)

Intelligent couples who want to stay together discuss this boundary before entering a LARP relationship. It is always okay to say "I am interested in persuing this relationship, but I need to check with my boyfriend first to see if he is okay with it."

I have seen several OOC conversations that basically boil down to "Okay, our characters are becoming emotionally involved, how far are you comfortable going with it." Both in terms of "Described" or "Assumed" Actions. ("Okay, we can say our characters kiss, but if we "fade to back" my wife will kill me.") and in terms of actual physical actions ("I know our characters are in love, but I'm just not comfortable being touched by people, so lets just spend a lot of time staring longingly at each other.")

I'll grant, negotiation *does* slow down play and disrupt immersion.

But divorces and shotguns disrupt immersion one hell of a lot more.

To steal a concept from another sort of RP, lets keep it Safe, Sane, and Concentual folks, and SSC applies to *all* participants, including the audience, and including any spouses present or not.
 

Jared Thaler

Retired User
Re: How to make love in LARP?

Sure, my experience was rather unique...we had to simulate the act of sex using our necks? A rather uncomfortable process to say the least. Admittedly it was a futurisitic style larp so anything was possible. But as my first experience I was a little traumatized.

Is this a unique experience or is this kind of neck-sex a more widely used method in LARPing?

Your thoughts please...
Not something I've encountered here in the states.

But then US LARPS tend to be *very* heavily "No unsanctioned physical contact."

Probably in part because we can get sued so very easily.
 

Ryan Paddy

big picturist
Validated User
Re: How to make love in LARP?

I don't want the '00s story about larp to be: "They forced me to pretend I was being raped and I didn't know how to stop it."Yes, I'm fuming, Ryan. But I don't want Reeta's reaction to be to post on a bunch of forums something to the effect of "Oh my God. Don't go to _____'s games. I went to one and they forced me to play out a rape scene by rubbing necks with this creepy guy and I didn't know how to get out of the scene without looking like a total prudish b*."
Reeta is writing an article for a larp mag, and she seems to have a good head on her shoulders. I meant that she should string them up in the article.

I would also take all other available measures to warn people off this larp/organisers/players/whoever is responsible. If that means some people are put off larp in general, that's just the necessary price to be payed for everyone being forewarned about these people.

Or are we the Catholic Church, hushing up transgressions for fear of diminished reputation? Because you know how well that works.

It's only a matter of time before major laws are broken at a larp and it becomes a public scandal. There are thousands of people playing at massive events, it defies statistics to think that a slice of the population that large isn't going to include some with criminal behaviour eventually. What is the larping community going to do when that happens, try to cover things up? Transparency always wins, the larp organisers faced with such a situation should be in no doubt about going to the police immediately. We should have a culture of accountability. If dodgy practices like the one described are left unchecked and unexposed they will spread and worsen. A crime at a dance festival might not cause questioning of dance festivals in general, because people know what it is and understand the crime is an aberration. But a crime at a larp festival will. When the inevitable scandal does break, and we have to defend what we do, we should have clean hands and firm knowledge that we did eveything possible to avert it.

Which is why I say: hang 'em high.

Nath - your apologetics are embarressing.
 

Mike Curtis

Skirmisher
Re: How to make love in LARP?

Nath said:
I also note it's 'safe' in as much as it involves only necks.
Nath, do you not know that there are also emotional aspects to rape ? Your level of ignorance is astonishing, and I think you should be quiet, at least until you have done some research into this area. Ryan is right, you should feel embarressed.

Ryan Paddy said:
Which is why I say: hang 'em high.
I agree. It is absolutely critical that larp is safe. Any organisers and/or participants who (whether through incompetence or design) creates a situation like the one described by Reeta, should be thoroughly and publicly decried. It was quite clearly a dangerous situation which should never have happened in the first place.

Sunshine is the best disinfectant, and I say these people should be exposed.
 

0tting

Retired User
Re: How to make love in LARP?

I'm something of a Dutch larp regular and I have never been confronted by anything even resembling the act in the open. I never heard of any such scandal either. Sure, there's been cuddling and sneaking off after play-time, but I blame that on a campfire and booze. Reeta, could you tell us a little more about the event?
 

Nath

Registered User
Validated User
Re: How to make love in LARP?

eh? I haven't made any 'aplogetics.' I simply presented a devil's advocate position, since the organisers being accused aren't here to defend themselves. Given I made it clear that's what i was doing, the personal attacks on me seem uncalled for.

Last year my partner went (without me) to a larp (in Sweden as it happens) called 'nice evening with the family.' Her character was IC raped. This was represented by being beaten, pinned to the floor and brutally dryhumped. Another character at that larp (played by a friend of mine) was pinned up against a wall, and a rape represented by her hand being grabbed and banged up against the wall repeatedly.

My partner tells me this was a very powerful and emotional scene - the roleplay around it lasted for most of the larp. She said this was the best larp she's ever done (better than all the varied ones she's tried in the uk). Given that, I strongly object to people who take the line 'no rape mention in larp, ever.' (which would have deprived my partner of her best larp experience)

Larp is an artform. I object to art being censored on principle.

Moving on,

As I see it, there are two seperate issues here.

One is the inclusion of 'rape plot,' (even the mention of it) which I know some object to. I don't have any problems with that since it has traditionally been included in drama (e.g. shakespeare) as long as it is made clear that content is included in the larp (it was in 'nice evening')

The second issue is how to represent sexual acts of any kind in larp. I think we've already mentioned most of the methods that have been used. Some players want to play out powerful intense emotional experiences - it is because rape is so powerful emotionally that people want to include it. Obviously that's not for everyone, and needs to be advertised in the larp and the method of representation needs to be explained (along with a lot of other things)
 
Top Bottom