[inexplicable necro] How to make love in LARP?

Radendaren

pew pew pew lasers
Validated User
#81
Re: How to make love in LARP?

Obviously that's not for everyone, and needs to be advertised in the larp and the method of representation needs to be explained (along with a lot of other things)
This. If it's not made absolutely clear in the OC documentation, then you risk people being subjected to extremely undesirable experiences. There is the potential for real trauma - I know a girl who would likely beat the shit out of anyone if they tried to simulate raping her character (it's an automatic response in that kind of situation).
And not everyone has the wherewithal to be able to say, 'no, I don't accept being placed in a situation where my character might be raped'. Particularly, novice live roleplayers who might be worried that they are 'ruining the game' by breaking character or who aren't sure about where the IC/OC boundaries lie ('will he hit me for real if I protest?').


Sex - and rape one hundred times moreso - needs to be considered carefully by organisers, and the players both well-informed and capable of handling the situations that arise in-game. Character generation is actually, to me, an important aspect. For the fullest control over the situation, pre-gens are preferable. This way, no player is fully accountable for their characterisation - and I believe it creates a kind of 'safety net' which in turn allows you to challenge people's comfort zones. What if you get given the part of the rapist?

In games where characters are created by the players, and are persistent, then more stringent rules are favourable, in my view. Because there is a more intimate link with the characters, allowing one player to put another's character in a sexually degrading situation becomes a more personal problem. Murder is generally accepted as fine, but rape implies that the rapist character's player has deliberately chosen to play a character capable of such an act, and has chosen the victim - which can lead to a rather discomfiting experience for the victim's player, as they will no doubt start to question whether they were chosen for their physical attractiveness, position vis-a-vis the other player, etc... i.e. all the questions about OC reasons someone might have for committing rape, except that they can 'get away with it' because it's simulated and not real. And LARP should not be the place where people begin to speculate about, or worse - enact - their rape fantasies. There are other forms of roleplaying for that.

Anecdotally, I thought I would quote the rules on appropriate behaviour while IC from the latest Maelstrom Event Rules. This is a fest system with over a thousand players. (Emphasis mine)

Maelstrom Event Rules v3.0 said:
Maelstrom is a live roleplaying game intended for adults. As a result, it is possible to encounter a situation that you are not comfortable with OOC. Please remember that this is a game and that you should never feel obliged to roleplay anything that you are uncomfortable with OOC, nor should you expect any other player to roleplay something they are OOC uncomfortable with. Either withdraw IC from the situation or follow the normal rules for going OOC using a yellow armband.
The adult themes that exist within Maelstrom include mind-influencing magic, drugs and addiction, slavery, human sacrifice, racism and prejudice, prostitution, violence, robbery, torture, and murder. They do not include non‑consensual sex or sex with minors.
References to either of these two subjects are only acceptable as part of a character background. It is not possible to know what real life experiences other players have suffered, so you should avoid IC references to either of these two subjects in play to ensure that you do not upset any of your fellow players.
 

Jiituomas

obsessive larp analyst
#82
Re: How to make love in LARP?

i.e. all the questions about OC reasons someone might have for committing rape, except that they can 'get away with it' because it's simulated and not real. And LARP should not be the place where people begin to speculate about, or worse - enact - their rape fantasies. There are other forms of roleplaying for that.
I fully agree with this idea. I've made several larps that deal with this kind of themes ("Sin-Filled Nights of Bratislava" being the best known), but I've always emphasized in the material that themes of sexual abuse will be present, and have made it absolutely clear that there is no shame in withdrawing from the game, before or during. (And I've seen enough cancellations to believe the message was understood, and have invited so many players who canceled to other games later that no one doubts the "no stigma" statement either.) In certain larp-BDSM hybrids people may live out fantasies that no normal larp ought to contain, but those games should be very clearly marked in advance.

I do understand and accept the hardcore immersionist idea that the orc horde would realistically rape any female elf it came across, but I also believe that it's the game organizers' responsibility - duty - to tell the players to what extent (if any) such elements should be played out (and under normal circumstances, I strongly recommend "to no extent").
 

Ryan Paddy

big picturist
Validated User
#83
Re: How to make love in LARP?

eh? I haven't made any 'aplogetics.' I simply presented a devil's advocate position, since the organisers being accused aren't here to defend themselves. Given I made it clear that's what i was doing, the personal attacks on me seem uncalled for.
"Devil's advocate" is the weakest excuse imaginable. Who plays devil's advocate in such a sensitive discussion, presenting the most tasteless of positions because the arseholes who believe them aren't here to say it?

I for one made no personal attack on you, it's the ideas that you presented that I hate and find embarressing, and ideas are valid targets for scorn on this forum. Your ideas deserve all the attack they can get.

Larp is an artform. I object to art being censored on principle.
It's too late to get on your high horse when you've already posted this:

some people on here have suggested people are playing a larp to play out their fantasies? isn't that relatively common? I mean, don't some people play retro-adventuring larps because they want to play out heroic fantasies?
No one is talking about censorship, or saying that there is no place for such content in any larp. Your defense is to attack a strawman. Which is hardly surprising as your original post was indefensible.

This thread isn't about art larps where everyone is told about the disturbing content in advance, and the content is vital to the theme. It's about a larp with unknown intentions that didn't adequately warn people about the disturbing content.
 

Jiituomas

obsessive larp analyst
#84
Re: How to make love in LARP?

Ryan, before Nath's proper questions get weighted down and disregarded by public opinion, I wish to raise a point:

It is quite reasonable, given the organizers' absence, for Nathan to ask on what level the organizers effed up. Did they fail on providing player safe plot material, or on broadcasting the fact that the game will delve into highly unpleasant issues? One of these point clearly failed.

Likewise, one could reasonably ask what was their point in using an abstract system for depicting sex, including sexual violence: did they fail in taking to account the fact that some players could still find it highly unpleasant, or did they falsely expect people to relish the experience? Again, a clear fail point by the organizers, and one question definitely supported by by Nath's SO's experiences.

However, I can't condone the idea presented by Nath that the art of experience should (somewhat automatically) potentially contain all sorts of experiences. Some fantasy games may/should deal with the issue of sexual violence, others most certainly not, and some might, on a veiled level. While it may be a fine character development tool for Wagnerian opera, or a great narrative subject for Kurosawa, it's not at all fit for every game, and is not something people can (or want to) deal with on an equal footing.
 
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Old Geezer

New member
Banned
#86
Re: How to make love in LARP?

Your thoughts please...
My thoughts?

1) This was totally unacceptable. You should never be surprised by this sort of content.

2) As somebody who's been married for 21 years, I have to point out that "rape" and "making love" have nothing to do with each other.
 

Ryan Paddy

big picturist
Validated User
#87
Re: How to make love in LARP?

As somebody who's been married for 21 years, I have to point out that "rape" and "making love" have nothing to do with each other.
To be fair, the original poster's question was in tune with title of the thread.

We wheedled the reason for her question from her, and now we're discussing that instead, but that's our thread drift not hers.

As for larp as art, some larpers prefer to consider some larp as art. I think some larp can be art. The arty larps in question are probably not the sort of larp you're thinking of. Larp is a much more varied medium than you perhaps realise. But "larp is an artform" is a gross exaggeration of the situation. Some may be, but most probably isn't. Anyway, that's a different discussion.
 
#88
Re: How to make love in LARP?

Larp is an artform. I object to art being censored on principle.
BWAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!
LARP can be an Artform.

Almost anything *can* be art (some things take more effort than others.)

However, LARP can also be a sport.

And in sports we have rules to keep people safe.

Reeta (from the sound of it) was in a sport LARP, not an art LARP.
 

RSC

Retired User
#89
Re: How to make love in LARP?

Last year my partner went (without me) to a larp (in Sweden as it happens) called 'nice evening with the family.' Her character was IC raped. This was represented by being beaten, pinned to the floor and brutally dryhumped. Another character at that larp (played by a friend of mine) was pinned up against a wall, and a rape represented by her hand being grabbed and banged up against the wall repeatedly.
I'm normally a defense attorney's wet dream in terms of presumed innocent and all that jazz, but isn't that basically sexual assault? I don't mean in some sort of bad flashback symbolic way, but the actual act of holding someone down and dry humping them is a sexual assault all by itself. Sounds like one carefully worded permission form away from serious jail time.
 

Nath

Registered User
Validated User
#90
Re: How to make love in LARP?

While it may be a fine character development tool for Wagnerian opera, or a great narrative subject for Kurosawa, it's not at all fit for every game, and is not something people can (or want to) deal with on an equal footing.
I concur. Most larps are not going to include rape material. Romantic/sensual/ sexual material is going to be a lot more common (as a common part of the human condition) but even that isn't a 'key element.'

I've run 40-ish larps. I believe the closest I've ever come to including 'rape plot' was a vampire feeding on someone.

The point I was trying to make is an objection to the views I've heard from some larpers than rape should never even be mentioned in any larp ever.
 
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