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John Wick 3: para bellum [Spoiler Thread]

Menocchio

Eccentric Thousandaire
Validated User
Hey Winston, remember your quote from part 2?



Glass houses, man, glass houses.
Oh, Winston knew exactly what he was doing. He just weaponized John for a campaign against the High Table. At the beginning of the movie, John just wanted to live. To the extent that he was willing to go back into their service, selling his wife's memory because then at least someone would remember her. Winston convinced John that it was better to die as a free man, but John presumably still wanted to either go out a blaze of glory or win peace and a return to normalcy. But now he's pissed off.

And yes, I'm presuming that Winston wants the high table dead more than he wants to live. This isn't an assassination, it's a suicide bombing and John's the explosive.
 

DailyRich

Damn fool idealist
Validated User
I've seen a few people talking about Winston's "turn" and I I don't know how you can see that as anything but a ploy to let Wick escape. Especially given the earlier scene where the doctor shows Wick exactly where to shoot him to create convincing but non-lethal wounds.
 

Menocchio

Eccentric Thousandaire
Validated User
I've seen a few people talking about Winston's "turn" and I I don't know how you can see that as anything but a ploy to let Wick escape. Especially given the earlier scene where the doctor shows Wick exactly where to shoot him to create convincing but non-lethal wounds.
Or how another character intentionally shoots Wick in his armored suit earlier.
 

Count_Zero

Game Master
Validated User
I've seen a few people talking about Winston's "turn" and I I don't know how you can see that as anything but a ploy to let Wick escape. Especially given the earlier scene where the doctor shows Wick exactly where to shoot him to create convincing but non-lethal wounds.
Especially considering the look that Winston gives John as soon as the Adjudicator brings him up in the conversation.
 

Logos Invictus

Registered User
Validated User
Especially considering the look that Winston gives John as soon as the Adjudicator brings him up in the conversation.
And the quickness with which the Bowery King's people cleaned up. I have a feeling Winston's "We are New York" line was a hint that he'd already gotten with the other magical criminal secret societies in New York and gotten at least a few of them on the side of kicking the Table out of the city once and for all.
 

HNutz

Knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men!
Validated User
John Wick 3 had.... some parts that didn't feel quite right to me.

Like that "new" wing of The Continental.

I dunno.

But I liked Halle Berry and her dogs. It almost felt like they were trying to make up for that dog scene way back in John Wick 1.
 

Count_Zero

Game Master
Validated User
Like that "new" wing of The Continental.
True - that seemed very out of place on the one hand, but on the other hand it basically allowed for something of a shout-out to the climax of Enter the Dragon, so I'm okay with that.
 

Taraqual

Words words words
Validated User
I think it's significant that Sophia absolutely destroys everyone in Casablanca. Not-Bronn was her boss, so he was probably High Table himself, or just one rung down. All he did, from the High Table perspective, was to remind her that she was "below the Table" and the things she cares about can be taken away. And in response, she obliterates dozens of his people, one of his knees, and his testicles. (Well, give that one up to the dog.) And at the end of it, she still has her dogs and her daughter is out there somewhere, safe.

It's significant that John and Charon take out the entire High Table strike team, just the two of them. Yes, the other guards were there to distract the guys, but just two people with the training and determination killed every last highly-armored, highly-armed soldier sent to scare these people.

It's significant that John by himself took out Zero's heretofore-invincible ninja squad. They'd walked through the Russians and the sacrificial lambs the Bowery King sent against them, and Zero treated the entire thing like a game, a great way to meet the legend and have some fun fighting him. But from the moment John met them, he wasn't astonished by their mystique. He just killed the guy in the train station and proceeds to work his way through the others. Sure, the battle in the Glass Room was difficult as hell for him, but found solutions for their tricks and killed all but those two guys. I think they only lived because they gave him a break and a chance to get back up, so he was returning the courtesy. Zero, though, he was tired of from word one.

Hell, it's even significant to me that the Bowery King didn't die from the cuts (although that was probably intentional on Zero's part; I can't imagine he'd be that sloppy otherwise) even though the Adjudicator clearly thought he was no longer a factor to consider. Plus, the way things turned around and the Adjudicator went from threatening Winston to asking for parlay--and then John is "killed" in from of them--is similar.

So the three major efforts from the High Table to directly exert power over these people, especially John, all failed. In response to these direct actions, the High Table lost almost everyone it sent to bring him to heel. The only one who didn't face the consequences of John Wick, yet, was the Elder. And I can't help but think his time his coming.

I'm thinking the High Table has seriously overestimated its actual power and the next movie is going to be all about the consequences.
 

ogier300

Registered User
Validated User
I think it's significant that Sophia absolutely destroys everyone in Casablanca. Not-Bronn was her boss, so he was probably High Table himself, or just one rung down. All he did, from the High Table perspective, was to remind her that she was "below the Table" and the things she cares about can be taken away. And in response, she obliterates dozens of his people, one of his knees, and his testicles. (Well, give that one up to the dog.) And at the end of it, she still has her dogs and her daughter is out there somewhere, safe.

It's significant that John and Charon take out the entire High Table strike team, just the two of them. Yes, the other guards were there to distract the guys, but just two people with the training and determination killed every last highly-armored, highly-armed soldier sent to scare these people.

It's significant that John by himself took out Zero's heretofore-invincible ninja squad. They'd walked through the Russians and the sacrificial lambs the Bowery King sent against them, and Zero treated the entire thing like a game, a great way to meet the legend and have some fun fighting him. But from the moment John met them, he wasn't astonished by their mystique. He just killed the guy in the train station and proceeds to work his way through the others. Sure, the battle in the Glass Room was difficult as hell for him, but found solutions for their tricks and killed all but those two guys. I think they only lived because they gave him a break and a chance to get back up, so he was returning the courtesy. Zero, though, he was tired of from word one.

Hell, it's even significant to me that the Bowery King didn't die from the cuts (although that was probably intentional on Zero's part; I can't imagine he'd be that sloppy otherwise) even though the Adjudicator clearly thought he was no longer a factor to consider. Plus, the way things turned around and the Adjudicator went from threatening Winston to asking for parlay--and then John is "killed" in from of them--is similar.

So the three major efforts from the High Table to directly exert power over these people, especially John, all failed. In response to these direct actions, the High Table lost almost everyone it sent to bring him to heel. The only one who didn't face the consequences of John Wick, yet, was the Elder. And I can't help but think his time his coming.

I'm thinking the High Table has seriously overestimated its actual power and the next movie is going to be all about the consequences.
The whole speech Berrada makes about the social contracts, and the repeated use of the term fealty, plus the way the coins and the markers work suggests that the Assassins work on personal connections. We see through all the movies that its personal.

But the Ajudicator and the High Table work arbitrarily. They demand fealty, obedience... but it's all at a remove. Faceless thugs, agents, constant references to rules. It's "The Adjudictor", "The Manager", "The Concierge", "The Doctor", "The Director"... but John Wick is using people's names, he's connecting with them personally.

So they "depose" the Bowery King, give him 7 cuts, and think its over... but all of his people are personally loyal to him. He is The King, after all.
They try to unseat Winston, but his personal connection to John Wick means they can't.
They push the Russia mafia, and one suspects that's going to come back and burn them.
They push Sofia, and she basically burns down their gold forge operation.

I'm probably not expressing this very well, but I feel like the mistake the High Table makes is thinking fealty is owed to their abstract position, when it is owed rather between people and individuals. And, I think, this is why John Wick now off the leash and freed to act, is going to be able to tear it all down.

As for Winston doing a bit - I have to think he must have expected the fall to do John in at minimum, right? I mean, no one should have survived that fall?
 
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