• The Infractions Forum is available for public view. Please note that if you have been suspended you will need to open a private/incognito browser window to view it.

John Wick 3: para bellum [Spoiler Thread]

HNutz

Knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men!
Validated User
True - that seemed very out of place on the one hand, but on the other hand it basically allowed for something of a shout-out to the climax of Enter the Dragon, so I'm okay with that.
But they did something similar in John Wick 2...
 

Count_Zero

Game Master
Validated User
So the three major efforts from the High Table to directly exert power over these people, especially John, all failed. In response to these direct actions, the High Table lost almost everyone it sent to bring him to heel. The only one who didn't face the consequences of John Wick, yet, was the Elder. And I can't help but think his time his coming.

I'm thinking the High Table has seriously overestimated its actual power and the next movie is going to be all about the consequences.
The Elder's got John's wedding band. John murdered his way through Abram Tarasov's men at the start of John Wick 2 for the photo of John and his wife that he left in the car's glove box. Imagine what John's going to do for his wedding band.

I'm probably not expressing this very well, but I feel like the mistake the High Table makes is thinking fealty is owed to their abstract position, when it is owed rather between people and individuals. And, I think, this is why John Wick now off the leash and freed to act, is going to be able to tear it all down.
Well, they actually set this up pretty well when they explicitly lay out what I've stated I had suspected in a couple earlier threads about John Wick - the coins and markers represent a favor and trust economy, and are bound up in more of a social contract instead of a formal one. The thing with social contracts is the spirit of the rules are a lot more important than the letter of the rules. The actions of the High Table in this film make it clear that they feel that, well, the Letter of the Law matters more than the spirit. Santino at no point broke the Letter of the Law, but his actions were absolutely in violation of the spirit. If he had left John alone after he'd completed his marker, Santino would still be alive, and John would have had his house rebuilt to exactly the way it was before.

To put it another way - violate the Letter of the Law, the High Table sends an Adjudicator. Violate the spirit of the law, and John Wick is going to end up coming for you - and the High Table has clearly violated the spirit of the law.
 

Count_Zero

Game Master
Validated User
But they did something similar in John Wick 2...
True. It's just that the Bruce Lee allusions were coming to my mind considering the first fight of the movie is basically the director showing how he'd do the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar fight from Game of Death with John Wick instead of Bruce Lee.
 

Taraqual

Words words words
Validated User
As for Winston doing a bit - I have to think he must have expected the fall to do John in at minimum, right? I mean, no one should have survived that fall?
Except that Winston checked where John was standing first. And he didn't shoot John in the head, but in the armored suit. I mean, yes, it's likely most people would be dead after the fall. But this is John Wick, and Winston knows his friend's capabilities and how the hotel is set up. He also expressed no surprise whatsoever that John's body wasn't in the alley.

I don't know for certain Winston is doing a bit. He might have been planning a revolution and then got cold feet. But I think maybe he'd be okay with a revolution. We'll see if he still feels that way when Baba Yaga pays a visit later.
 

ESkemp

Registered User
Validated User
The Elder's got John's wedding band. John murdered his way through Abram Tarasov's men at the start of John Wick 2 for the photo of John and his wife that he left in the car's glove box. Imagine what John's going to do for his wedding band.
That was basically our thought. John's wedding band is basically the One Ring here, and the Elder doesn't realize that this is his Isildur moment.
 

Xander

Registered User
Validated User
Heh, I was expecting incredible property damage when John runs through the storefront filled with chandeliers. Who would have expected that there would be a showcase of weapons upstairs? (unless John already knew it before...)

John assembling a gun to fit the one bullet he had was awesome. Also, what happens when assassins fight in a hallway stacked with swords and knives... I wonder?

There's probably a lot of business for any assassin of any value who -didn't- go after John Wick. "I'll take the second highest contract, thanks."

At least the ninja brothers knew enough to quit while they were still breathing. They'll be able to tell that story to their kids someday.
 

Shade the Lost

Registered User
Validated User
Heh, I was expecting incredible property damage when John runs through the storefront filled with chandeliers. Who would have expected that there would be a showcase of weapons upstairs? (unless John already knew it before...)

John assembling a gun to fit the one bullet he had was awesome. Also, what happens when assassins fight in a hallway stacked with swords and knives... I wonder?

There's probably a lot of business for any assassin of any value who -didn't- go after John Wick. "I'll take the second highest contract, thanks."

At least the ninja brothers knew enough to quit while they were still breathing. They'll be able to tell that story to their kids someday.
They can compare notes and stories with the assassins from the last movie. I seem to recall at least one of them was left alive, in part because (for John) he wasn't trying to kill him so much as get him to stop trying to kill John.
 

Ariketh

Registered User
Validated User
I'm still sort of wondering if Winston's actions at the end were for the adjudicator's benefit. It's pretty convenient for Wick to have had a rescuer handy, after all.
I agree.

Here's my take: The Adjudicator had her moment with Winston and he was pissed. He expected that it was his House, his Rules., but she changed that. Then she had the moment with the Bowery King. Winston needed info and contacts BK. They end up discussing the Adjudicator. Plans were set in motion.

Why: Winston has gone out of his way to assist Wick even when he didn't need to in the previous movies. As mentioned in this one, they are pretty much friends. (I get the feeling that Winston is something of a father figure.) When the turn comes, he uses a small caliber weapon when he knows damn well that Wick is wearing an armored suit. After Wick fell, any other body would be quickly recovered, but he left Wick out there and, as you mentioned, his rescuer was quite handy. The Adjudicator wouldn't be any wiser if she hadn't gone into the alley to check. When she told Winston, he didn't seem surprised. And as mentioned, Winston mentioned NY being his power base, not the Continental.


After the movie, a friend of mine compared Winston to a Shadowrun dragon - wily and usually several moves ahead. My friend, on the other hand, thinks that Winston considered Wick a sacrificial pawn, presaged by the chessboard in the one scene.
 

Menocchio

Eccentric Thousandaire
Validated User
After the movie, a friend of mine compared Winston to a Shadowrun dragon - wily and usually several moves ahead. My friend, on the other hand, thinks that Winston considered Wick a sacrificial pawn, presaged by the chessboard in the one scene.
Wrong RPG. This is V:tM, not Shadowrun. Winston is a powerful local Prince who is striking at the heart of the Camarilla.
 

Dave999

Registered User
Validated User
I also think that the High Table has been doing something very weird in that they are focused entirely on Santino's actions.

However, John Wick didn't kill ONE member of the High Table.

He killed two.

Starting with Santino's sister as he wanted her position. This basically means that the High Table either supported Santino's coup or are trying to pretend that John hasn't killed the equivalent of two Camarilla Inner Councilmen.
 
Top Bottom