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Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin!

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Argent

aka Jerry Sköld
Validated User
Third iteration, people. The time for the PDF release of Legends of the Wulin draws close. What awesome characters will you create? What amusing situations will they put themselves in? And what´s up with everyone using giant inkbrushes for kung fu fights, yo?

Here is the link to the first thread, when we were learning our first stances.

The second thread went on for a time, and our cultivation grew.

The Sage spoke on the Tube of You, and his teasing lessons made us stronger.

And now we have arrived at the next step of our journey! Feel free to post pertinent links for ease of reference, and keep on with the speculation, the anticipation, the rumination!
 

devlin1

Human Paraquat
Validated User
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

Third iteration, people. The time for the PDF release of Legends of the Wulin draws close.
Define "close." I have excitement for getting this game. But when is?
 

KreenWarrior

Legal Smeagol
Validated User
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

The last announcement, as of two days ago, said "Monday, Beijing time".
 

Asen_G

#3 Anti-Illusionism Squad
Validated User
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

Was this an announcement of the pre-order, or the PDF release? If the PDF is only for those that pre-order, that might be different;).

Whatever the case, I really hope they release it on Monday. I admit to having purely egoistic reasons for that:D!


I think one particularly sad thing about losing high level techniques as discrete things is that you can no longer quest for those specific techniques that easily. Learning a Rare style in WotG was often an epic challenge in and of itself; befriend the Three Powers Sage, conquer Dugu's mountain, join the Axe Immortals. Even just Uncommons required an investment in the setting. As I understand it, learning an "incomplete" Uncommon doesn't require much in the way of special justification, so it would be relatively easy to piece together an "ultimate" technique without that bar to entry; and that bar is part of what makes those techniques special.
You could quest for that Loresheet that makes it complete. IIRC, you only get them for joining a faction or the like, and that is never easy.
Also, it makes mastering or inventing a single ultimate style stories easier to do. You don't just gather Destiny to master it, you gather techniques. Each one makes you better, but the protagonist feels it's not yet the good enough! He masters the external style first. "Can I beat Li the Mountain Fist with that? No way!"
He masters two internal styles then.
"Can I beat Li the Mountain Fist with that? Well, maybe, but not likely! I think I have yet a lot to learn! What can I do?"
He then joins a faction in desperation. "Can I beat Li the Mountain Fist with that? Yes! Now I've got it what I need to oppose his Mountain-Splitting Fist! His style should fear mine! I laugh at it!"
And then in the battle he learns Li has also got a loresheet, so it's not as easy as he thought, based on when he saw it in action all those years ago, when his whole clan was slain.
"Your kung-fu has improved, Li!"
"Did you doubt it?"
And it can really go everywhere from here:).

Well, this is a bad analogy on my part, but to answer within your context, I'd say that Iron Whirlwind + Hungry Tiger is explicitly not the same, and does not pretend to be the same, as Sharp Light of Judgement Stance, even if IWW + HTT is more useful and effective in most combats. High-Essence Charms do not do the same things as Combos, and that makes both of them cooler.
I guess we just approach it differently. Maybe I get a hyperactivity from seeing things that combine well, while you get a greater hyperactivity from seeing discrete things that work great.
I wonder, would it help if you changed the Destiny costs? Maybe you could create an ultimate style that is equal to the combination of your existing styles and loresheets, plus whatever you were learning? If it doesn't combine with them as a special restriction, so you can't use them together, it wouldn't be unbalancing IMO.
Don't know, just thinking aloud:).

Well, you can read Condor Heroes so the high-level techniques are a combination of multiple components. Remember, Yang Guo in RoCH learns the internal energy cultivation of Toad Stance but not the rest of it, so he can't actually use the technique to attack at will and doesn't have the other signature features of the technique (an unbreakable defense that automatically counterattacks incoming attacks). Dog Beating Stick is also separated into the formulas (internal art) and stances (external art), which Yang Guo learns separately in the same novel. Solitary Yang Finger is also shown to vary in power considerably depending on how much of it you know, with the Wu brothers only knowing the basic method for sealing acupoints and Zhu Ziliu even creating a new and more powerful (external) style using a pen as a weapon that still used Solitary Yang Finger as a base, which shouldn't be possible if it's a single technique.
Yeah, that's my reading as well:). But obviously other people don't share it, and that's fine.

Definitely. A style can be consistent in itself and have multiple components; certainly WotG Rares did. It's the derivation of a subsequent transcendent style from two unrelated or thinly-related styles that forces the dis-congruity. There's plenty of semi-homebrew workarounds, as noted previously; I would just like for there to be a concrete statement to that effect in the text so that we don't get varying levels of balance in homebrew endgame tech. Given that it's already gone to production, I understand this is impossible, but it's something to think about for the future.

Here's an example of one workaround I find pretty promising, since it remains within the rules completely: an Internal Style with scaling internal synergies dependent on cost. In honor of Belphanior / Sage Genesis' Three Kings, I'll counter with Hero of Chaos, commonly referred to as the Star-Crown-of-Evening Kung Fu!

Internal: Hero of Chaos
This style was practiced by the mightiest of villains during the fall of the Han, the ruthless tyrant Cao Cao! Ruling over the Kingdom of Wei, Cao forged order from chaos in the wake of the Yellow Turban Rebellion and raised an army of a million men - but at what cost? This kung fu's techniques strike with merciless efficiency: the indomitable will of a man who vowed to rule all under Heaven! Since the Star-Crown-of-Evening was crafted by a single man, it possesses no variants - indeed, it can itself be thought of as the dark variant to Three Kings.

1: Right-Left Hen Stroke
With a single blow, you will teach them to fear you.
*For one roll, your opponent's style fears yours.

Advanced Techniques

2: Long Arm of Vengeance
Who dares strike the Hero of Chaos? Only a fool.
*If your defense succeeds by 10 points or more, you may perform a Reply if your attacker is in the same Zone. If your opponent's style fears yours, you may perform a Reply even if they are in a different Zone.

3: Havoc of Principles
When values conflict, turmoil spreads! Only a tyrant can slice through a knot of principles.
*When you force a Rippling roll, you may reverse the usual order of rolling and declaration: your opponent must first roll Chi Aura and only then do you have to roll damage. You do not have to declare damage-related techniques until after their roll is complete and they have decided their techniques.
*If your opponent's style fears yours, you may flow one die from your River into the damage roll. If your style also laughs at theirs, you may flow your entire River into the damage roll.

4: Four-Headed Dragon Emperor Stance
Has nothing to do with that terrible movie! Your chi does take the form of a Four-Headed Dragon, though. What weapon of man is a match for the force of a single dragon, let alone four!?
*For the entire round, all styles fear yours and your style laughs at all others.

5: All Under Heaven
Casting aside all pretenses, your ambitiously seize the ultimate prize. A dark blanket of clouds stretches to the horizon, blotting out sun and sky: the tyrant's domain encompasses all under heaven!
*For the entire round, you remove all dice from your Chi Aura.
*For the entire round, your attacks are Area Attacks that strike all those whose styles yours laughs at. These attacks have a radius in Zones equal to the number of Chi Aura dice you removed.
*You have a Secondary Strike that can be used against any character whose style fears yours.

Lower-ranked characters won't be able to remotely afford 4 + 5 consistently and also wouldn't get that much utility from them, but for a First-Rank character with lots of Chi, it's a perfect Evil Overlord technique. An all-out attack that hits every plucky adventurer twice in one round, but which exposes your critical weakness!
I like that. At least one good thing came out of this discussion, which I was afraid would annoy other people!
 
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Nald

Nerd of All Trades
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

My understanding is that it is essentially both. The plan seems to be taking pre-orders once the final pdf is completed to send to the printers. Since by that timing we know they'll already have the pdf when orders go up, well, I have trouble thinking of a reason they would delay further.

There was some mention of making sure their billing/distribution system was up and running properly as well but only in passing because some of us are willing to torment anyone silly enough to give us an opening. <_<
 
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Argent

aka Jerry Sköld
Validated User
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

Was this an announcement of the pre-order, or the PDF release? If the PDF is only for those that pre-order, that might be different;).
The earlier post have talked about the PDf going to preorders. Other than that, I have no idea.
 

frws25

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

For what it's worth, I have no interest in a physical copy of the book. A PDF on the other hand...

This just hit my radar, looking forward to it.
 

Argent

aka Jerry Sköld
Validated User
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

I´d be very surprised if the PDf was exclusive to book preorders - at the most, I imagine that they could get it first or something. Normal caveats for me not being an Eos insider etc etc.

Oh, and naturally I´m very happy that you are interested. :)
 

Asen_G

#3 Anti-Illusionism Squad
Validated User
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

I guess we'll just have to see;). I've been digital-only for quite a while, myself.
But it's up to EOS how they'll decide to handle this:).
 

Yo! Master

"Delicious"
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Re: Legends of the Wulin discussion thread part III: The Smiling Proud World of Wulin

Hattori said:
3: Havoc of Principles
When values conflict, turmoil spreads! Only a tyrant can slice through a knot of principles.
*When you force a Rippling roll, you may reverse the usual order of rolling and declaration: your opponent must first roll Chi Aura and only then do you have to roll damage. You do not have to declare damage-related techniques until after their roll is complete and they have decided their techniques.
*If your opponent's style fears yours, you may flow one die from your River into the damage roll. If your style also laughs at theirs, you may flow your entire River into the damage roll.
Mhm... This looks more problematic compared to the equivalent one from 'Three Kings':

3: Harmony-of-Principles
This technique hides your weapon in the shadow of your opponent’s – no matter what it may be! Unseen and inscrutable, your attacks become mysteries to your opponents.
* Your attack may not include any Marvels; your weapon must move so precisely that you must stick to the basics.
* You reverse the usual order of rolling and declaration: your opponent must first roll a defense and only afterwards do you have to make the attack. This also lets you delay choices such as whether to use certain techniques or the River.

First of all, 'Harmony' has an additional drawback to your attack, whereas 'Havoc' actually gets a bonus - one that synergies with the Style's Basic Technique & in combination with what this whole Technique does can really splatter an opponent (meaning they have to overpay for defensive effects to be on the safe side & thus even if nothing much happens with the attack you getting ahead in the Chi attrition race, more so than with 'Harmony' - which is the main reason it has the drawback it has). Chi Aura being an activated ability that costs Chi also compounds that.

Also, i get the impression that the Technique is meant to be used after you see if you hit? Most (if not all) offensive Techniques seem to have their window of activation before you roll to hit, even ones that have to do with damage (which this one puts them totally as the last thing being activated).
 
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