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Age of Hunters

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Okay I downloaded the zip. I read through the book... Its different (and I do like different). The intro says the players choices are the bioggest part of the game, not the dice. This I liked. Then I read on...

Oh it uses all the dice, d20 on down. interesting
Backstory seems cool, godzilla and friends crashed from the sky, kicked the crap outta us. Now you fight back
The Character creation talks about minor math problems on the sheet, I will come back to this but ugghh (and full disclosure I did this too in an RPG and it seems fine, but really when I dropped it things got better)
The system is balanced so you can play with anyone character and be a part of this game. Nice, I hope its true.
You always round down is a rule? Math rules.....?

Character creation: Wow lots of math to do when you create and level your character. Oh I get to play Sudoku to set my starting attributes? the total has to equal 0. Interesting but point buy seems simpler and gets me the same result. So Your character gets a zodiac power and then medium powers (spirits channeled through a weapon) Plus 3 attributes and 6 skills. Every time you level you redo the soduku for attributes and skills. I see this is to keep things balanced; I HATE THAT. you say in the beginning I have choice, but really its just what car I can visit on the train. That said lots of games do this, just not my fave.
Oh I get to make a cool magic weapon with its own character gen, that's kinda neat
Making a high level character means more maths to keep it balanced. Lots of math and the only Role play is my height and weight. Still it is a simple Character Gen would not take long. I can see a savage worlds or DnD person being okay with it, but players of Fate or more narrative games would walk I think.

No XP system, gain a level after you complete an adventure. That's fine, not exciting but fine.

You pick a spirit and get traits (feats) for you passive and actives. Passives are out of combat actives in. All fine again balance. As A Player I woul;d have to step away from combat to activate a passive and use it to help in combat or a scene. That is a choice, not sure how interesting it is. Spirit has stories and such, nice. I hope they connect to the world. Cool art

Now we pick zodiacs? Lots of earth references here. Leprechaun? Clover ? Would be cooler if these were more world specific (could be they are). Each adds a Feat/ability to the character. Not sure how they would be used for role play, they just list mechanical abilities. Certainly could be done.

5 Skills - More Sudoku 3xlevel is max total. Again to keep things in line as far as I can tell. I can min max at the expense of other stuff.

3 Attributes -- Same as skills and above description this is more detail. Some spirits are linked to an attribute, some are not.

Whole big thing on abilities and stacking or unique (should be up by spirits where I get the abilities?)
List of abilities and rules and maths.

Medium (Weapons) Pic a trait for it (Int, Agl, Str). You can add more, I think later not sure... Seems you get all three pick one as the main, lots of explination, but no example confusing me. Give it one of the enchantments from the spirit its channels (so the spirt abilities are here not for the character ahhhh(nope whole new list of powers for the weapons). Thats kinda cool.
And 6 more starts with maths to figure them out. Sure they will change as I grow. interesting, no history of the weapon no way to use that mechanically, very ADnD/2e. Feeling kinda video gamey.
Lots of charts and mechanical bonus when you attach attribute X to Item type Y, Kinda limiting.

Combat chapter should be actions or scenes, with combat in it?
Meat of the system
d20 + Stuff vs Set value +Char Level (3 levels norm, hard, very hard)
Conditions and saves chart, interesting usable.
Saves v Conditions are always 15+ Level (normal)

So in combat I can do Active spirit abilities or step out and do passives. Some stack and get more powerful as I take them more...ok
fair and simple, not so interesting. I can use my primary action to pump up an ability (with the stacking) over time. Or maintain one and keep using it.

So the combat rules assume I am using my Medium. I assume if I lose it regular weapons have a set attribute and value I have to use. Thats kinda cool if true. Else I get the feeling I might have 3 or 4 different mediums.
Steps to attack 1) pick target 2) Pick attribute from your medium 3) roll d20 + attribute from medium? (it says source B
not clear). ranged ios the same with range mods of -1 -2 -3...
Defenders can use 2 attributes to defend ok sure.
Crits when you break 20 (21+), double damage assuming the total hits
Damage comes from you medium (reading this again it seems you combine character and medium starts for the attack and defense with that medium. Mediums are all over the place it seems.)

Other options, Delay, distract, Escape Grab Focused attack, grab, Guard, Jump, Move, run, Spirit Heals, Switch weapons (medium, so seems you get lots of these), Throwing, Talk, Perception. Then the with an experienced GM do what you want: Guidelines.
The the GM sections talks about rest and rewards, then the bestiary. Seems normal creates are like 10 -50 (but this varies), doing around 20 damage. (I think your hits are around 100 but if you have more than 1 medium they could change in combat based on that choice) Elite creatures are like 50+ and do 50 damage when they hit.

The the market/equipment section very old school feel. You get 10g an adventure or less if you get stuff from here.

So This is my take. Pretty old school, I saw no mention of using dice other than a d20, but its a demo. The link between the user and the weapon is cool, but the Illusion of choice is that you get all this stuff to do, but old school GM fiat rules to make it happen. Not interesting. Characters are just a bunch of numbers (given whats here). There could be huge swaths of improv given the abilities, but no creating at the table. Granted that's not the game it is, it has a DnD 4/ Iron Kingdoms feel; tactical with powers to move about and kill things. Can you tell good stories with it sure, but it would be me telling my players answer these 3 questions about your character, warhammer style to find out where to take it. So if you want this to appeal to old school players who want a light system, with decent options great. But more narrative players Fiasco, Fate, even DnD5 where people have really invested in the backgrounds and such, are gonna pass this up. The demo needs more of the world you built, even if its just a description of a town the adventure is in.

How would I change this (not that you care)
Your hook of the magic weapons should be the driver, This is the story of the weapon and the hero finding their power; together. The character is a farmer or a town guard. They got this medium (somehow) the town mayor shoved this in their hands and it spoke to them. Chargen should be make the weapon (giving it a name of legend), boost your meager stats from the archetype you picked and some bonuses for your backstory. Now you go save your town, and then the world. Advancement should be all about the character, when they hit a point (set by their medium), the weapon grows in new ways. Suddenly the whole thing is a wide ranging story of unready heros getting closer and stronger with that one weapon. Very Samurai/ronin with powers that escalate as quickly as your bestiary. The zodiacs could be a narrative power I can use once per session to change an outcome or reroll or something. Link it to my past and its even more powerful. These are all cues I can use to role play in this world.
Giving the whole system a feeling of I am using ability X to cause Y to happen I roll and the roll pushes the (Yes),(Yes,but) or (No, but), (no) results would make many of these choices more story and flow better than a binary pass fail. Maybe a d20 with a zodiac die, based on your choices in chargen. roll odd on that die its a but? just floating ideas here.
That is the game I want to play. This is not that game. I wish you luck with the game. Its yours, I hope you can find an audience for it.

First of all, I thank you A LOT for the feedback :)

Point 1: you mentioned soduko and math, maybe this is my weakness. Because I think, there is only very little math. Maybe this video would clear it up.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/853643740/636583568?ref=635609&token=5f40dd77

This is a preview page and has videos in it. When you level up, there is very little math that you have to do.

- Add 3 points in skills (keep in mind that the limit is 2x the level for each skill)
- Add 2 in one attribute or just 1 in all 3.
- Pick an Affix for your medium that has only 1 number. Add that to your stats.

Now you are done with the math.


Point 2: More stories (even in the demo). That is really useful feedback, because it is true and we knew it. Hence we are working on it, it just takes time and effort to have good stories.



Point 3: You mentioned that choices are illusions. Hmm... I will try to rephrases all the choices.


Picking stats (numbers increasing), I would NOT count that as choice. So level up increasing attributes, skills etc. are not in my consideration as choices.


Choice 1: The Zodiac
Choice 2: The mediums build (Building your medium to be unique)
Choice 3: Pica combinations of abilities set (this is grant through 2 spirits)
Choice 4 (minor): The extra finishing touch for your build by picking Traits /feast
Choice 5: The enchainment that would change your combat style. Go life steal with a shield? Go berseker with a wand? Go support with a daggger? Sure!

Choice 6 (most important one): The choices in combats. You can build a tanky Archer with the choices: Should I stay away and do some damage? Or should I run in to tank? If so when and how?

again, thanks for the feedback :)
 

Age of Hunters

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Validated User
I did watch the KS preview.
It is what cemented the boardgame feel.

This has the looks of a boardgame ruleset.
Not saying it is, but so far it is very light on the RP aspects. Feels quite focused on the Combat Game side of RPGs.

You are not wrong about that. We are trying to put more RP aspects into it. Right now, we are trying to write an origin story backgrounds for characters that you can play as.

But yes, this game is focusing more on the combat aspect of it.
 

Malidar

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Validated User
You are not wrong about that. We are trying to put more RP aspects into it. Right now, we are trying to write an origin story backgrounds for characters that you can play as.

But yes, this game is focusing more on the combat aspect of it.
I would suggest filling out the World of Age of Hunters isn't that where the Players are going to be?

Seems a bit strange that you show how quick it is to make a character, but are putting your efforts into "Right now, we are trying to write an origin story backgrounds for characters that you can play as."
 

darnest

PureImaginationNoLimits..
Validated User
My apologies for not responding to your questions above I will try to later tonight.

"We are trying to put more RP aspects into it. Right now, we are trying to write an origin story backgrounds for characters that you can play as."
I agree with malidar. Give us a world to build those stories on, and give us cues to those things on the character sheet. The DnD sheet has spaces for backgrounds, History and other stuff. You don't need a lot, just a bunch of one liners I can expand upon.
 

darnest

PureImaginationNoLimits..
Validated User
First of all, I thank you A LOT for the feedback :)

Point 1: you mentioned soduko and math, maybe this is my weakness. Because I think, there is only very little math. Maybe this video would clear it up.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/853643740/636583568?ref=635609&token=5f40dd77

This is a preview page and has videos in it. When you level up, there is very little math that you have to do.

- Add 3 points in skills (keep in mind that the limit is 2x the level for each skill)
- Add 2 in one attribute or just 1 in all 3.
- Pick an Affix for your medium that has only 1 number. Add that to your stats.

Now you are done with the math.


Point 2: More stories (even in the demo). That is really useful feedback, because it is true and we knew it. Hence we are working on it, it just takes time and effort to have good stories.



Point 3: You mentioned that choices are illusions. Hmm... I will try to rephrases all the choices.


Picking stats (numbers increasing), I would NOT count that as choice. So level up increasing attributes, skills etc. are not in my consideration as choices.


Choice 1: The Zodiac
Choice 2: The mediums build (Building your medium to be unique)
Choice 3: Pica combinations of abilities set (this is grant through 2 spirits)
Choice 4 (minor): The extra finishing touch for your build by picking Traits /feast
Choice 5: The enchainment that would change your combat style. Go life steal with a shield? Go berseker with a wand? Go support with a daggger? Sure!

Choice 6 (most important one): The choices in combats. You can build a tanky Archer with the choices: Should I stay away and do some damage? Or should I run in to tank? If so when and how?

again, thanks for the feedback :)
So I am going to to relate some of my reply to my Session last night. The session really reflects the choices I love in a game versus your responses above.

Choice 1: The Sudoku attributes and skills. This was not a slam so much of a question, is it necessary to do the math for such small numbers? Why not say you have 6 pts for attributes. Skills cost the target you are moving to, but cannot be more than double your starting. Faster and not a mini game that has no effect on the play. That's what I have learned from drive to make the math supporting to the play of the game; NOT the actual game.
That said you are right its not a ton of math, just not sure why I need to do that math.
In the Session I had last night, when folks where doing the math at the table it decides whether they succeed or fail.
They make choices that draw them into whats happening and the outcome, whether you like mechanics or story these are the mathy choices I have found players enjoy (as much as they ever enjoy the math).


Point 2: The Stories.. As I said in my other post, stories about the spirits and such are one thing, but you need to have stuff for the character to build on. As it is players have a bunch of numbers and abilities, but other than the Tanky archer or warrior who steals souls with their shields there is nothing to build on.
Look at DnD 5th and their backgrounds, Savage Worlds and how their character build reinforces the idea of a character you want to build in you mind. Look at more story games like Numenera, Fate or the *world games, where there is more meat for the player in story and even less in terms of mechanics. A small amount of story that I can use to build on would add so much depth.
In my session last night I had 3 players all who have defined passions. The passions are what you care about, what drives you. They all activated passions (means they succeed at the current task), and chose to take goals they have to accomplish or the characters start to change towards betraying who they are. They made choices that linked their actual survival to the survival of the group and the task at hand. No math, No rolls, I choose that I will save my party at the cost of my life. Those are the choices I am talking about, in game because of what I added to my character sheet.

Point 3: See Point 2, they are illusions to me because they don't really drive the story. They give me board game powers, like decent or imperial assault. Some are very cool powers, but they don't drive the story.

You say that leveling up is not a choice. That's wrong. In my mind if your players don't leave the table telling other players what awesome new thing they are gonna be able to do with the new ability, skill, or change to their character to help them overcome Fingar the Terrible for what he did to that village, you are missing something in your game.

The choices you list above are all character abilities. The zodiac does not give me a quest or a drive to do something, it says you can hide in shadows; mechanics no stories. I already said the Mediums are cool, but they should have a legend; a story as to where they came from. Why do they exist, Why do I have one. The way your rules are written they are an extension of the character, like another ability. Choosing the enchantment is a perfect story moment Instead it does this "that would change your combat style. Go life steal with a shield? Go berserker with a wand? Go support with a daggger? Sure!" Abilities. In my mind would it would be better if there was a cost or some sort of story element associated with doing those things, a story. I berserk with my wand, and the longer I use it the greater the chance I start killing innocents and friends. Or I lose the ability to communicate for a short time. Whatever but flaws and traits exist in other games for that reason; to give players hooks to build a story so much bigger than the numbers on the sheet.

Last example from my session last night. Caster type player (started as a spy/caster and has grown totally away from the spy). She is on a quest to become a god, other have done it in the worlds cannon, she want to do it for reasons. Last night the character failed a critical roll and was going to die. She activated her passion about embracing a prophecy she does not understand, but feels its the key to becoming a god. She DIED on a critical fail. She chose to activate the passion. Now she has no choice, she becomes a GODDESS in the next 2 sessions or she is dead. There is no way to know if she will do it, hell the original prophecy was about her finding the key. She turned it into becoming the key. Why? because in my book that's role play. Everything done was done by the player; driven by the GM's story and parts of the character, these prompts on that character sheet.

Your game is very ADnD, very fiat driven. You can say that everything I mention above can be done by the player at any time; just say it and it is. RPG's have evolved past straight fiat, to supported fiat. Game systems themselves can and should support what I am doing with my story. The GM should find hooks in the overarching story to drive my story. My character sheet should reflect that story.
I am a barbarian wizard from a lost northern tribe. This tribe uses the lost art of Wand Blast to fight like warriors. My wand is an artifact of Vartog the Bloody and I have no idea how to use it right. I will reunite the northern tribes and overthrow the yoke of the Dark Empire.
All that above I made up. Imagine if the character I created had prompts that supported all of that with my choices in character build and growth. Support means I have a background trait From the Enslaved Northern tribes. I get the ability to inspire the down trodden. Support means My enchantment is from the crab and lets me do X when I see injustice. The prompts are more than abilities, they help me come up with ideas for the story and then do the things in the story.
From what I read your system does not do that. I make the 6 choices, get stuff for each choice and GO. No Prompts but the GM and that story. That's one way to play, just not how I like to play. I get its also not done, but without a bunch more world to expand and give context to the abilities and characters, its gonna read like a board game.

I want to stress that I am not trying to slam your game. I am telling you what about it looses me. I have no idea if others would agree. I like story in my mechanics, I like prompts that drive ideas and new story changes. When all I want is mechanics I can play a video game or a board game.
I hope this helps you see what I am talking about and its constructive to you going forward.
 

Age of Hunters

Registered User
Validated User
So I am going to to relate some of my reply to my Session last night. The session really reflects the choices I love in a game versus your responses above.

Choice 1: The Sudoku attributes and skills. This was not a slam so much of a question, is it necessary to do the math for such small numbers? Why not say you have 6 pts for attributes. Skills cost the target you are moving to, but cannot be more than double your starting. Faster and not a mini game that has no effect on the play. That's what I have learned from drive to make the math supporting to the play of the game; NOT the actual game.
That said you are right its not a ton of math, just not sure why I need to do that math.
In the Session I had last night, when folks where doing the math at the table it decides whether they succeed or fail.
They make choices that draw them into whats happening and the outcome, whether you like mechanics or story these are the mathy choices I have found players enjoy (as much as they ever enjoy the math).


Point 2: The Stories.. As I said in my other post, stories about the spirits and such are one thing, but you need to have stuff for the character to build on. As it is players have a bunch of numbers and abilities, but other than the Tanky archer or warrior who steals souls with their shields there is nothing to build on.
Look at DnD 5th and their backgrounds, Savage Worlds and how their character build reinforces the idea of a character you want to build in you mind. Look at more story games like Numenera, Fate or the *world games, where there is more meat for the player in story and even less in terms of mechanics. A small amount of story that I can use to build on would add so much depth.
In my session last night I had 3 players all who have defined passions. The passions are what you care about, what drives you. They all activated passions (means they succeed at the current task), and chose to take goals they have to accomplish or the characters start to change towards betraying who they are. They made choices that linked their actual survival to the survival of the group and the task at hand. No math, No rolls, I choose that I will save my party at the cost of my life. Those are the choices I am talking about, in game because of what I added to my character sheet.

Point 3: See Point 2, they are illusions to me because they don't really drive the story. They give me board game powers, like decent or imperial assault. Some are very cool powers, but they don't drive the story.

You say that leveling up is not a choice. That's wrong. In my mind if your players don't leave the table telling other players what awesome new thing they are gonna be able to do with the new ability, skill, or change to their character to help them overcome Fingar the Terrible for what he did to that village, you are missing something in your game.

The choices you list above are all character abilities. The zodiac does not give me a quest or a drive to do something, it says you can hide in shadows; mechanics no stories. I already said the Mediums are cool, but they should have a legend; a story as to where they came from. Why do they exist, Why do I have one. The way your rules are written they are an extension of the character, like another ability. Choosing the enchantment is a perfect story moment Instead it does this "that would change your combat style. Go life steal with a shield? Go berserker with a wand? Go support with a daggger? Sure!" Abilities. In my mind would it would be better if there was a cost or some sort of story element associated with doing those things, a story. I berserk with my wand, and the longer I use it the greater the chance I start killing innocents and friends. Or I lose the ability to communicate for a short time. Whatever but flaws and traits exist in other games for that reason; to give players hooks to build a story so much bigger than the numbers on the sheet.

Last example from my session last night. Caster type player (started as a spy/caster and has grown totally away from the spy). She is on a quest to become a god, other have done it in the worlds cannon, she want to do it for reasons. Last night the character failed a critical roll and was going to die. She activated her passion about embracing a prophecy she does not understand, but feels its the key to becoming a god. She DIED on a critical fail. She chose to activate the passion. Now she has no choice, she becomes a GODDESS in the next 2 sessions or she is dead. There is no way to know if she will do it, hell the original prophecy was about her finding the key. She turned it into becoming the key. Why? because in my book that's role play. Everything done was done by the player; driven by the GM's story and parts of the character, these prompts on that character sheet.

Your game is very ADnD, very fiat driven. You can say that everything I mention above can be done by the player at any time; just say it and it is. RPG's have evolved past straight fiat, to supported fiat. Game systems themselves can and should support what I am doing with my story. The GM should find hooks in the overarching story to drive my story. My character sheet should reflect that story.
I am a barbarian wizard from a lost northern tribe. This tribe uses the lost art of Wand Blast to fight like warriors. My wand is an artifact of Vartog the Bloody and I have no idea how to use it right. I will reunite the northern tribes and overthrow the yoke of the Dark Empire.
All that above I made up. Imagine if the character I created had prompts that supported all of that with my choices in character build and growth. Support means I have a background trait From the Enslaved Northern tribes. I get the ability to inspire the down trodden. Support means My enchantment is from the crab and lets me do X when I see injustice. The prompts are more than abilities, they help me come up with ideas for the story and then do the things in the story.
From what I read your system does not do that. I make the 6 choices, get stuff for each choice and GO. No Prompts but the GM and that story. That's one way to play, just not how I like to play. I get its also not done, but without a bunch more world to expand and give context to the abilities and characters, its gonna read like a board game.

I want to stress that I am not trying to slam your game. I am telling you what about it looses me. I have no idea if others would agree. I like story in my mechanics, I like prompts that drive ideas and new story changes. When all I want is mechanics I can play a video game or a board game.
I hope this helps you see what I am talking about and its constructive to you going forward.
Don't worry about ''bashing my game'' :) I am really good at differentiate constructive feedback from random tantrums.

Your feedback helped us A LOT. When we made this game, we decide that this is more a Dungeon Crawler RPG games, meaning that it is leaning more towards boardgames with stories. Which mean that we are aiming to build a whole serie of stories/campaign ready for the players to follow using our system. But we are not at that state yet!

Don't worry about bashing us, we won't make our game just to please you :) HOWEVER! We did underestimate how important stories is for such games. That said, we have been focusing on more stories buildings now and much less math!

Here is the new changes for the system :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y9og3b3ADeL8bb-_S00yE2WgOPyDmPAx


Changes:


1. Slowly add character backgrounds into the game. Now you have a background to build on and more on character stories later.
2. Reduce the ''sudoko math''. Not everyone likes math, in fact, most people dont like math :) So we change it into more dice rolling instead.
3. Coming, but not yet... a whole campaign only aiming to teach players how to play the game. Basically it will lead you step by step how to create a character, how to fight, how to use spirits etc. But the campaign will do it through a story telling. :)

Thanks again for your feedback, hope the new change will (at least) catch enough of your curiosity to test play it.
 

darnest

PureImaginationNoLimits..
Validated User
Okay I downloaded and I looked.... The Layout is much clearer. I see now how I would use multiple dice in the system. Then you lost me, dice pools drive me crazy, and the way you did you skills on that table Uggh.. Again for me. and the the back grounds (really character classes or previous occupations, but its a start in the right direction) are in chapter 4??? Nope Backgrounds first, then Skills then Spirt and Medium.

Back to the skills. So the dice pools are your thing fine. I would rather see a mechanic that has these rules for me to work with
to tailor my character.
-- Skills start at 1d4 and Attributes start at 1d6.
-- Each extra die costs 1pt
-- Raising a die type costs 2, however change a die type you lose one die (min 1d).
-- So to go from 2d6 to 3d6 costs 1 XP, to go from 3d6 to d8 would cost 2 XP and you would have 2d8 now.
-- you cannot buy a second row die until your first row is at least at 2d
-- The second row has to be at least 1 die less than than the first. These rule have to be followed when the character is done, but starting out I can break them

So I build a character (my way not yours :))
Home City of Varlik, the underside
outlaw (12 Pts Abilities) + 2 attack or damage (lvl1)
Str: 4d6 (4)
Agl 1d6 --->4d6 (3) ---> 3d8 (5)
Int 1d6 --->2d6 (1) ----> 1d8 (3)
Starting Skills: Char 1d6 Lore 1d4 Luck 1d8/1d6 Nat 1d8/1d6 Tech 1d8/1d6

Spirit Revent Ronin 8 Skill points
Trait: Lightning Strike: For 1 standard action, this ability ensure 2 attacks have a
range equal to your agility from source B. These attacks also have +5 bonus
attack.

Identities:
Orphan from the Noble house of Vat (+2 pts Cha) trouble making friends -2 first meeting
Soldier conscripted into the War with the Elven Monitors(+3 Pts Tech) Can take a hit for a friend or free attack if ally is hit.
Exiled (from Guild) Tried to take control of guild from Asten (+2 Luck) Has a price on my head, GM can activate when I roll 1,1

So that gives me a total of 15 points to spend on my skills above, and they have to be right by the rules above at the end.
Char 1d6 ---> 2d8(4)
Lore 1d4 ---> 3d4 (2)
Luck 1d8/1d6 --> 3d8/2d6(3)
Nat 1d8/1d6 ---> 2d8/1d6 (1)
Tech 1d8/1d6 ---> 2d10/1d8 (6)
OOPPS thats 16 too many. I really want my guy to be good at tech, So I am gonna nerf my lore to 1d4, so I can have that high Tech.
See Choices that matter to me... and fast...
Selected Trait (limited choices based on my background): Quick Instinct +5 Initiative per rank

Medium (again My rules :) )
Name: Lost Black Blade of Zast (10 pts)
Found: I stole this from the Vaults of the Kingdom of Tears ( 10pts cause its stolen Other options give you more or less)
Legend: Killed the High Priestess of Dartha, started the War of the Fallen (10 Pts cause its a dark one (started a war/Murder))
I have 30 Points to spend. Each Power is picked from a list and costs 2-10 pts

-- Boost: AGL +1 die type in combat, Thrown +2d AGL (10)
-- Ability: +2 Attack or Damage (2)
(Type Trait could be light, powerful, magical, or something else) Darkness: Character must make a Cha save after using the blade or lose control and attack a friend or suffer a wound. (-5, I gain back 5)
-- Enchantment: Revenge:
Action: Free when taking damage
Effect: The attacker also takes the same amount of the damage dealt
-- Health Boost : +10 (10)
-- Melee Bonus : +2 (5)
--- Def Bnus: 0 (0)
-- Damage: 20 (5, starts at 10)
-- Gains Powers at 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 12th (2, usually only 3 gain powers)
Total 28 used of the 30 (with the -5 for darkness)

So thats what an RPG character should look like IMHO. Every thing there is my choice, the rules gave me the framework to define x, y, and z But its mine. I did not step on your train; I ran that train down my track. I made real choices for my skills and abilities. I have Dice pools I want and story all over the place to use while I am playing. I can see this character in my mind and I can play them and the weapon.

I hate the no XP thing, But your game so; Let the GM call when they level based on story. Then use energy as points to upgrade skills/attributes. So At level 2 I get 7 Energy and 7 pts for skills/Attributes. Total at level 8 = (6+7+8+9+10+ 12+14+16) = 82 Pts
So the cost to take the above character from a starting agility of 2d8 to your highest (4d12/2d6) would be as follows:
2d8----> 4d8(2)
2d8/1d4 ---> (3)
2d8/3d4 ----> (2)
4d8/3d4 ---->(2)
3d10/3d4 ---->(2)
3d10/2d6 ----->(2)
2d12/2d6 -----> (2)
4d12/2d6------> (2)
Total Spent ----> 17 out of 82 Points to boost just this one attribute. By 8th level I would have a bunch or really good pools to play with. All determined by my choices and if I was a Probability nerd (and I mean this in a good way) I could get this to the best pool for me..

So those are my thoughts on the new stuff, still its better. I see where you are going, but its still way to board gamey. If that's what you want great, but then don't call it an RPG call it a dungeon crawler and supply stories for 10 crawls in the game.

Again all my ideas, not that the game is bad, but if you are gonna call it an RPG I believe you need way more story stuff for player to build on. Hope this is helpful.
 

Age of Hunters

Registered User
Validated User
Okay I downloaded and I looked.... The Layout is much clearer. I see now how I would use multiple dice in the system. Then you lost me, dice pools drive me crazy, and the way you did you skills on that table Uggh.. Again for me. and the the back grounds (really character classes or previous occupations, but its a start in the right direction) are in chapter 4??? Nope Backgrounds first, then Skills then Spirt and Medium.

Back to the skills. So the dice pools are your thing fine. I would rather see a mechanic that has these rules for me to work with
to tailor my character.
-- Skills start at 1d4 and Attributes start at 1d6.
-- Each extra die costs 1pt
-- Raising a die type costs 2, however change a die type you lose one die (min 1d).
-- So to go from 2d6 to 3d6 costs 1 XP, to go from 3d6 to d8 would cost 2 XP and you would have 2d8 now.
-- you cannot buy a second row die until your first row is at least at 2d
-- The second row has to be at least 1 die less than than the first. These rule have to be followed when the character is done, but starting out I can break them

So I build a character (my way not yours :))
Home City of Varlik, the underside
outlaw (12 Pts Abilities) + 2 attack or damage (lvl1)
Str: 4d6 (4)
Agl 1d6 --->4d6 (3) ---> 3d8 (5)
Int 1d6 --->2d6 (1) ----> 1d8 (3)
Starting Skills: Char 1d6 Lore 1d4 Luck 1d8/1d6 Nat 1d8/1d6 Tech 1d8/1d6

Spirit Revent Ronin 8 Skill points
Trait: Lightning Strike: For 1 standard action, this ability ensure 2 attacks have a
range equal to your agility from source B. These attacks also have +5 bonus
attack.

Identities:
Orphan from the Noble house of Vat (+2 pts Cha) trouble making friends -2 first meeting
Soldier conscripted into the War with the Elven Monitors(+3 Pts Tech) Can take a hit for a friend or free attack if ally is hit.
Exiled (from Guild) Tried to take control of guild from Asten (+2 Luck) Has a price on my head, GM can activate when I roll 1,1

So that gives me a total of 15 points to spend on my skills above, and they have to be right by the rules above at the end.
Char 1d6 ---> 2d8(4)
Lore 1d4 ---> 3d4 (2)
Luck 1d8/1d6 --> 3d8/2d6(3)
Nat 1d8/1d6 ---> 2d8/1d6 (1)
Tech 1d8/1d6 ---> 2d10/1d8 (6)
OOPPS thats 16 too many. I really want my guy to be good at tech, So I am gonna nerf my lore to 1d4, so I can have that high Tech.
See Choices that matter to me... and fast...
Selected Trait (limited choices based on my background): Quick Instinct +5 Initiative per rank

Medium (again My rules :) )
Name: Lost Black Blade of Zast (10 pts)
Found: I stole this from the Vaults of the Kingdom of Tears ( 10pts cause its stolen Other options give you more or less)
Legend: Killed the High Priestess of Dartha, started the War of the Fallen (10 Pts cause its a dark one (started a war/Murder))
I have 30 Points to spend. Each Power is picked from a list and costs 2-10 pts

-- Boost: AGL +1 die type in combat, Thrown +2d AGL (10)
-- Ability: +2 Attack or Damage (2)
(Type Trait could be light, powerful, magical, or something else) Darkness: Character must make a Cha save after using the blade or lose control and attack a friend or suffer a wound. (-5, I gain back 5)
-- Enchantment: Revenge:
Action: Free when taking damage
Effect: The attacker also takes the same amount of the damage dealt
-- Health Boost : +10 (10)
-- Melee Bonus : +2 (5)
--- Def Bnus: 0 (0)
-- Damage: 20 (5, starts at 10)
-- Gains Powers at 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 12th (2, usually only 3 gain powers)
Total 28 used of the 30 (with the -5 for darkness)

So thats what an RPG character should look like IMHO. Every thing there is my choice, the rules gave me the framework to define x, y, and z But its mine. I did not step on your train; I ran that train down my track. I made real choices for my skills and abilities. I have Dice pools I want and story all over the place to use while I am playing. I can see this character in my mind and I can play them and the weapon.

I hate the no XP thing, But your game so; Let the GM call when they level based on story. Then use energy as points to upgrade skills/attributes. So At level 2 I get 7 Energy and 7 pts for skills/Attributes. Total at level 8 = (6+7+8+9+10+ 12+14+16) = 82 Pts
So the cost to take the above character from a starting agility of 2d8 to your highest (4d12/2d6) would be as follows:
2d8----> 4d8(2)
2d8/1d4 ---> (3)
2d8/3d4 ----> (2)
4d8/3d4 ---->(2)
3d10/3d4 ---->(2)
3d10/2d6 ----->(2)
2d12/2d6 -----> (2)
4d12/2d6------> (2)
Total Spent ----> 17 out of 82 Points to boost just this one attribute. By 8th level I would have a bunch or really good pools to play with. All determined by my choices and if I was a Probability nerd (and I mean this in a good way) I could get this to the best pool for me..

So those are my thoughts on the new stuff, still its better. I see where you are going, but its still way to board gamey. If that's what you want great, but then don't call it an RPG call it a dungeon crawler and supply stories for 10 crawls in the game.

Again all my ideas, not that the game is bad, but if you are gonna call it an RPG I believe you need way more story stuff for player to build on. Hope this is helpful.
Thanks again for the feedback. This game is too boardgamey, yes and tend to stick to that - understandable if that would turn you off, but then it is now opinion based, which is fine.

For me, your style is more math and with more or less the same concept of illusion of choices, but the big different is the small stories added to the character for each step.

Also, your way to increase dice pool is not ''balanced'' in the way that the probability and the point spend are not proportional, but maybe we do tend to focus on the math too much?

Again, thanks for your feedback. I think we got rid of our confusion and can improve our game to meet our expectation.
 

darnest

PureImaginationNoLimits..
Validated User
Thanks again for the feedback. This game is too boardgamey, yes and tend to stick to that - understandable if that would turn you off, but then it is now opinion based, which is fine.

For me, your style is more math and with more or less the same concept of illusion of choices, but the big different is the small stories added to the character for each step.

Also, your way to increase dice pool is not ''balanced'' in the way that the probability and the point spend are not proportional, but maybe we do tend to focus on the math too much?

Again, thanks for your feedback. I think we got rid of our confusion and can improve our game to meet our expectation.
I totally understand what you are going for. For a more tactical board focused game, balancing the probabilities would seem to be more important. My way seems more mathy, but it allows a player multiple ways to mess with probabilities. Your way keeps everything at a bell curve, I would guess, but one way to build. Mine allows for crazy outliers. I think if you added in criticals when you roll doubles and crit failures when you roll multiple ones those outliers become more interesting. When the roll of the dice changes the story, characters have to react to something unexpected, the game gets interesting and challenging. As you said preference on that is simply opinion. It is however, a fairly standard Point buy system you see in many RPG's. As we said above YMMV.

The Big difference is the stories and the Medium. The Stories are huge for players like me, even in a more board focused system. Look at gloomhaven, all the characters have backstories and as they grow that story grows. As for the medium in your system its a big mess of numbers, in what I posted its a story and character enhancer. Again YMMV but something has to be the focus; the character or the medium. So if you are doing the medium boosts and sets character values, then I would have them make the medium as the core and the character boosts that. Once again thats an opinion.

I hope you can meet the design goals you have, I was happy to have the discussion.
 
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