Lord of the Rings on Prime - Welcome to the Second Age

Gavin Bennett

What Would Trudeau Do?
Validated User
#31
Is it possible that Amazon didn’t get the Silmarillion, but they did get Unfinished Tales? It’s not part of the History of Middle-Earth series, and has a lot of Second Age detail.
While UT is supposedly still under the Estate's control, it would appear that years of third party groups mining the work means there's some sort of fluidity. With the Appendices and a bit of arm-chancing you can probably get a lot out of UT before running into trouble.

At this point, for example, the name Khamul the Easterling and the term "Maiar" are out in the wild, for example.

You could probably create something that looks awful like the Aldarion and Earendis story without quite tripping over whatever legal hurdles are involved.


Beyond all that?
I'd say GoT will be a huge influence - just not the wolfy-incesty-sexpositiony bit. (Just as Fellowship seems to have been an influence on the GoT TV series)

I'd say it will not look much like the Hobbit movie. (So not "Warhammer, the TV show").
But we may well see a "family" saga of a bunch of elves, Maiar and elder Dunedain as the power of Numenor encounters the "dark age" of middle earth. The characters will be flawed and complicated and all sides will have some sort of justification. When the Edain fuck up, they fuck up epically, after all and the "faithful" may well just be the least-worst.

Movie-Aragorn seems to be driven by a terror of becoming Isildur Mk2. Maybe it could be broaden it a bit - being of the Edain is pretty much carrying around a wheelbarrow of nasty fate at all times.

You can do things with this, I think.
 

21st Century Moose

Registered User
Validated User
#33
The Second Age doesn't need to take influence from anywhere else, it's already a pretty dark story as is, from the War of the Elves with Sauron through to the Downfall. We have a dark age of Sauron-dominance on Middle-earth, the Shadow on Numenor, temples, blood-letting, human sacrifice, the forces of good withdrawing to safe houses, the first arising of the Nazgul as powerful kings and sorcerers, etc. As a prologue to LOTR there's a good, solid "history of the Rings" to be told here.

 

Fabius Maximus

Registered User
Validated User
#34
Yeah. You can make it extremely dark if you want ot, because let's remember, much of the second age? Teh bad guys win. Sauron may lose his ability to look fair, but it's a pretty nice exchange for destroying the people who had essentially been the most blessed by the Valar--and who had actively fought against his former master, Melkor. I mean, just remember, Sauron was there for the War of Wrath, and now, in the temple, he watches teh descendents of those who helped to humble his master, sacrificing their fellows to that self same master, out of fear of death.
 

Eldy

If you try sometimes
Validated User
#35
Sauron was there for the War of Wrath, and now, in the temple, he watches teh descendents of those who helped to humble his master, sacrificing their fellows to that self same master, out of fear of death.
Sauron in Númenor is definitely one of the parts I'm most curious to see, assuming that, as seems likely, the fall of Númenor will feature at some point in the first five seasons. Someone on another forum I visit recently posted a piece I hadn't seen before by Elena Kukanova (who has a good of work featured on Tolkien Gateway ), depicting Sauron as the high priest of Melkor in the temple in Armenelos (spoilering out of an excess of caution since there's some blood, but nothing too gory).

Spoiler: Show

Akallabêth said:
Thereafter the fire and smoke went up without ceasing; for the power of Sauron daily increased, and in that temple, with spilling of blood and torment and great wickedness, men made sacrifice to Melkor that he should release them from Death. And most often from among the Faithful they chose their victims; yet never openly on the charge that they would not worship Melkor, the Giver of Freedom, rather was cause sought against them that they hated the King and were his rebels, or that they plotted against their kin, devising lies and poisons. These charges were for the most part false; yet those were bitter days, and hate brings forth hate.
The final sentence of that paragraph jumps out at me. There's a lot that could be done with the final decline of Númenor if the showrunners decide to go that route.
 

DarkStarling

Brilliantly Crazed
Validated User
#36
Sauron in Númenor is definitely one of the parts I'm most curious to see, assuming that, as seems likely, the fall of Númenor will feature at some point in the first five seasons. Someone on another forum I visit recently posted a piece I hadn't seen before by Elena Kukanova (who has a good of work featured on Tolkien Gateway ), depicting Sauron as the high priest of Melkor in the temple in Armenelos (spoilering out of an excess of caution since there's some blood, but nothing too gory).

Spoiler: Show



The final sentence of that paragraph jumps out at me. There's a lot that could be done with the final decline of Númenor if the showrunners decide to go that route.
Dang that's some good art. It looks perfect for Sauron.
 

BrightOwl

Who?
Validated User
#37
Amazon bought these rights years ago but I hadn't really been looking forward to the show itself.

And then this map dropped. And based on what's there and not there, you can place the map at a very specific time - when Sauron dwelt among the ring-makers in disguise. And because of little details being correct - such as the fact that the bald hill in the great forest is named "Amon Lanc" rather than "Dol Guldur" - you can see that the people who made the map have done their homework.

I'm one of those sick freaks who prefers The Silmarillion to Lord of the Rings. The Akallabeth is my favorite part of that work. I once ran an OSR version of the Keep on the Borderlands, set near Pelargir at approximately 3300 SA. I am starting to get excited.

Something to keep in mind however is that the map is very clearly mid-Second Age. Still 1500-2000 years to go to get to the Downfall of Numenor. So the show is much more likely to focus not on Numenor, but rather on Eregion: the making of the rings, Sauron's open declaration of mastery over every inhabitant of Middle-earth, and the war which follows.

A lot of interesting stuff for the beginning of the show. Sauron in his fair-seeming disguise, making friends among the Gwaith-i-Mirdain, perhaps ranging further afield a bit to scout potential future Nazgul. Galadriel not buying one bit of his bullshit but eventually losing out on the popularity contest and departing for the golden wood. Celebrimbor - who is perhaps nursing an unrequited love for Galadriel - at first enthusiastically embracing Sauron, thrilled by the knowledge and craft he can share, but slowly coming to realize that he has (literally) made a deal with a devil and will one day pay the price. Meanwhile Gil-Galad and Elrond (who turned Sauron away) watch with concern, the neighboring dwarves rule Khazad-dum at its absolute pinnacle of culture, and the lords of Numenor begin to flex their muscles and realize the true extent of their strength and power.

I want to keep my expectations measured. Good ideas don't always lead to good execution. But the potential here is enormous.
 

Fabius Maximus

Registered User
Validated User
#38
I've always liked this image of Sauron and Ar-Pharazon:



After long years, he's getting soft, getting old, and even if he still is decent in shape he knows it, so Sauron smiling, comes to his "old friend" who is sitting angrily in the corner of his practice room, after ordering his trainers out, because he just realized that they're holding back out of fear of hurting the old king. And now? Now is the time when Sauron whispers--"In Valinor, great king, there is no death..."
 

Majestic

The Truth is Out There
Validated User
#39
Really a great opportunity to do some good stuff here.

If they really put care and love into this, there is the possibility of greatness. There's so much quality that they're competing with, let's hope they are patient and have an attention to detail that impacts every aspect of the show.
 

DarkStarling

Brilliantly Crazed
Validated User
#40
I've always liked this image of Sauron and Ar-Pharazon:



After long years, he's getting soft, getting old, and even if he still is decent in shape he knows it, so Sauron smiling, comes to his "old friend" who is sitting angrily in the corner of his practice room, after ordering his trainers out, because he just realized that they're holding back out of fear of hurting the old king. And now? Now is the time when Sauron whispers--"In Valinor, great king, there is no death..."
That’s exactly it. And people seem to really make the look of Sauron in a golden mask and robes work.

I imagine, on the show, we’ll see Sauron’s form slipping more and more as his mind begins to warp his physical form.

Or maybe something like in Deep Space 9, where the founders reveal they aren’t able to shapeshifting anymore because of the virus.
 
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