[MLP FiM] Thread 20 - ellivynoP draobrekcehC gnitaolF s'drocsiD

Bremen

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1) See, the difference is that the a fire elemental existed before leaving the Plane of Fire, and continues to live in the fire world after being sent back there. The mirror is not a portal to multiple G3s or anything like that. The Pinkies did not exist before leaving the Pool - something might have existed but not the Pinkies as themselves - and while you could posit that after being exploded by Twilight and returning to the pool as a wisp of magic they reform, I fail to see
how is that any good. Since it's a pool not a world to live in.

And even after all that, you are still left with Twilight putting her friend into a death trap where by design a moment's distraction equals death-or-worse, all because she didn't even consider trying to talk to them first, and Pinkie emerging to tell them in the end that she was the last one left because having friends gave her the strongest will to live. Not these exact words, but unambiguously the same meaning.
Those are what you assume. You're cherry picking assumptions just to make it look horrible; I don't see any reason why they aren't perfectly happy there, or are perhaps frozen in time until someone else uses the pool. That video is just a silly joke the fandom made and you're using it to prove a point. The show is a cute kids show; if you're going to claim that it's really some sort of horrible grimdark story, I think the burden of proof is on you.
And Twilight is Pinkie's friend. I'm sure she knew that Pinkie could pass the test if properly motivated, but the fakes couldn't.

4) Bulk in Rainbow Falls can barely move in the air. In Hurricane Fluttershy he was specifically an example that ponies with small wings have no problem flying. Fluttershy is super OOC. Throughout the entire episode the correct thing to do is to dissolve the team because it has no reason to exist. It the worst written episode of Friendship is Magic.
As already established, there are plenty of reasons why he could have become a worse flyer. Sure, it's done for a joke and not explained, but it's not unrealistic enough to be a plot hole. As for the correct thing being to dissolve the team, whuh? I don't even know where you're coming from on that one.

6) Sure they knew each other. But Rainbow didn't like Pinkie and they weren't friends. You are the first proponent of Rainbow and Pinkie not being at least casual friends at the time of the Summer Sun Celebration.
Really? I've seen lots of people suggest the idea that the rest of the mane 5 weren't necessarily friends until Twilight brought them together. I never really considered Pinkie and Rainbow Dash not being that close before the episode a big piece of fanon, it was just the impression I got from the episode.

8) The objectionable part is where he is unreformed and at full power for an entire episode - at least a whole day, possibly more. Letting him have full power is all kinds of stupid.
Ok, that's the part you find objectionable. Considering past debates, I'm sure others would disagree, and my apologies if I mistook your argument for past ones :p
 

schpeelah

Retired User
Those are what you assume.
You keep telling me I assume things. Do point out what are those assumptions, so that I may correct them. I strive to start from nothing but the null hypothesis and in the light of the evidence I find the conclusions simply inescapable.
 

Bremen

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You keep telling me I assume things. Do point out what are those assumptions, so that I may correct them. I strive to start from nothing but the null hypothesis and in the light of the evidence I find the conclusions simply inescapable.
You're assuming that the pool is just a pool, not some sort of mirror realm. You're assuming that the spirits sent back there are forced into a horrifying fate, that they didn't exist before Pinkie used the pool, that Twilight didn't know what she was doing, and a bunch of other stuff.

Basically, yes, the show never straight out says "this isn't harming the clones", but it's still an assumption to think that means it is hurting the clones where there are plenty of other alternatives.
 

schpeelah

Retired User
You're assuming that the pool is just a pool, not some sort of mirror realm. You're assuming that the spirits sent back there are forced into a horrifying fate, that they didn't exist before Pinkie used the pool, that Twilight didn't know what she was doing, and a bunch of other stuff.

Basically, yes, the show never straight out says "this isn't harming the clones", but it's still an assumption to think that means it is hurting the clones where there are plenty of other alternatives.
Null. Hypothesis. Not assuming there is some kind of world inside the pool, because that's a positive assertion that requires positive evidence to be considered even as a possibility, and there is none. Not assuming that the Pinkie clones had any real existence before or after they were Pinkie clones, as there is no evidence of them having any identity beyond that. You can make up any amount of unsupported positive claims that turn anything you wish into anything else, but that's just living in a fantasy.
 

Bremen

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Null. Hypothesis. Not assuming there is some kind of world inside the pool, because that's a positive assertion that requires positive evidence to be considered even as a possibility, and there is none. Not assuming that the Pinkie clones had any real existence before or after they were Pinkie clones, as there is no evidence of them having any identity beyond that. You can make up any amount of unsupported positive claims that turn anything you wish into anything else, but that's just living in a fantasy.
I disagree. Just because the show doesn't positively state something in the case doesn't mean you can't assume it is, especially when dismissing the possibility results in a giant plot hole.

The burden of disproving the null hypothesis rests on the one trying to prove a point; in this case, that's you.
 
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Ashadar Shan

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I concur! We should really be arguing over more important matters, like which fictional cartoon ponies like to smooch on other fictional cartoon ponies!
Seconded! And might I point out that I have not seen a single under the mistletoe picture posted here recently? For shame.
 

Bag of Magic Food

Still captured by Lothor
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Twilight didn't murder a bunch of fake Pinkie Pies. She says straight out she's just sending them back to the pond, and we see it happen. I feel it's like banishing a fire elemental back to the elemental plane of fire; assuming she's murdering/imprisoning them requires you to make very specific assumptions about what's going on.
Oh, so now Twilight Sparkle is deporting immigrants, is she? :D
 

EvilAuthor

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Oh, so now Twilight Sparkle is deporting immigrants, is she? :D
Well she does report directly to the Head of State.

But yeah, the show made it a point to show the Mirror!Pinkie stuff returning to the pool after Twilight zapped the first Mirror!Pinkie. If the show intended to convey that Twilight was outright killing them, why not just kill them? Why bother showing SOMETHING returning to the Mirror Pool? This is the same show that showed a unicorn getting blown to pieves just the episode prior.

For that matter, the mist stuff that gets sent back to the pond? Where have we seen something similar before? Every time Spike sends a letter to Celestia, the letter gets burned and destroyed, turning into a whiff of green smoke that goes to Celestia and reassembles itself. So is Twilight sending the mirror clones back to the pool really any different from Spike sending a letter to Celestia?

---

And on a bit of Head Canon: Pinkie Sense.

After watching Pinkie Pride, I've come to the conclusion that Pinkie Sense isn't a rare Earth Pony power. It's a Laughter power. And I'm not talking the artifact here. Equestria and the world it inhabits is a world where emotions of all kinds have power: Friendship, Love, Hate, Fear, etc etc etc. So it makes sense that Ponies that focus on producing and spreading a specific kind of emotion (Laughter in this case) get some access to the magic that emotion creates.

For Pinkie Pie and Cheese Sandwich, this manifests as some kind of precognitive Sense. However, the difference in their lifestyles makes the Sense manifest slightly differently between them. Cheese Sandwich is a wanderer, going to where Parties need to be planned, so his Sense focuses on telling him where he needs to go next. Pinkie however lives in one place and throws parties more frequently, so her Sense is much more generalized.

I do wonder if the others of the Mane Six get some subtle abilities of their own. Does Rainbow Dash's sonic rainboom ability come from Loyalty? She managed to do it for the first time since she was a filly when she went to save Rarity. Is Fluttershy's Stare coming from Kindness? Her Key episode after all revolved around sometimes being firm is the kindest thing you can do after all.
 
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