• The Infractions Forum is available for public view. Please note that if you have been suspended you will need to open a private/incognito browser window to view it.

[MtG] Magic General Chat Thread

Kinghuge

Miniature Giant Space Hamster
Validated User
I think its not so much that it was broken as it was bar none the biggest enabler of combo/infinite bullshit in the entire format and Im honestly surprised its taken this long to hit it.. I understand they banned Iona given they also unbanned something that would have made her vastly more powerful in Painters Servant but overall I'm really ambivalent about her.
 

Catfish

Abominable Caftan
Validated User
On the one hand, no one's ever going to do anything fair with Paradox Engine.

On the other . . .literally any two-card combo is always going to be stronger than any other strategy in multiplayer. Combo decks are not balanced in the format. It's not a solveable problem. Banning one enabler is very much finger-in-the-dike. The only answer we will ever have is play combo yourself or hope you don't run into too many to ruin to your fun. Luckily the latter holds true for the most part, as combo is boring as hell and there aren't any prizes for winning the kitchen table.
 

AliasiSudonomo

Trying to be a bird
Validated User
The Commander group's philosophy there is "we aren't running a competitive banned list, we're banning examples of cards that don't promote fun games; take the hint."

This is a mindset very alien to a Spikish player who doesn't get the idea of sculpting a playgroup's expectations, but it's the mindset the Commander committee has.
 

Catfish

Abominable Caftan
Validated User
My point is more that the size of the cardpool, the lack of a defined metagame, and the nature of the format renders most of their ban decisions symbolic. Entire classes of card effects are detrimental to Commander. No multiplayer game has ever been made more fun by casting Time Warp, for example. And as long as decades' worth of printed tutors remain legal, there is no genuine barrier to running combo decks. Going off with Paradox Engine isn't less fun than arbitrarily ending a tense and interesting game with a Phyrexian Altar loop. Or whatever.

The only thing keeping Commander games fun is the commitment of the players at the table not to play things that break the format. The decision to ban any single card offers no protection.
 
Last edited:

DareDaemon

The Daemon who Dares
Validated User
What Commander really needs if it's going to really care about making a healthy metagame is something like the points list that Canadian Highlander maintains.

That said, paradox engine really does not play nice with a meta in which manarocks and manadorks are as common as commander. There's no cost to including it in your deck if your deck already runs a lot of decent nonland mana sources. In most formats, the cost to playing paradox engine is that you have to play something that lets you go off from untapping your stuff.
 

EsperDerek

Fluffy Boy
Validated User
Paradox Engine's biggest sin isn't that it ends games, lots of cards and combos end games. Paradox Engine's biggest sin is being a big ol' gamehog.

I remember playing PE in Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, and people getting up to grab a drink on my turn because I'd be taking a whole lot of time playing out my turns without necessarily actually winning, playing spells to draw cards to play spells.

Now if only they had of banned a certain common from Kaladesh that helps replicate a similar situation...
 

AliasiSudonomo

Trying to be a bird
Validated User
The only thing keeping Commander games fun is the commitment of the players at the table not to play things that break the format. The decision to ban any single card offers no protection.
Which is addressed in their philosophy document. Like, they straight up tell you just because X is banned, that doesn't mean that everyone should run Y slightly similar effect; it's just X is the most problematic of those effects.
 

RabidBunny

Replicating Menace
Validated User
Now if only they had of banned a certain common from Kaladesh that helps replicate a similar situation...
As annoying as Dramatic Reversal is, unless it's stuck on something like Isochron Scepter it's only having an effect once per turn. Paradox Engine's problem was that it locked people into watching the game over multiple turns, rather than just one explosive one.

The whole Kaladesh Block seems to have caused problems for our group in fairness, there was a real boost in power level of decks following it for us.
 

BarefootHobbit

psychic dog-walker
Validated User
Paradox Engine's biggest sin isn't that it ends games, lots of cards and combos end games. Paradox Engine's biggest sin is being a big ol' gamehog.
This is true. It's not just a broken card, it's a really boring broken card. There's no way to use it that's fair or fun.
 
Top Bottom