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[Netflix] The End of Evangelion, Death and Rebirth, and NGE General Spoilers Thread

Sankarah

Not Quite a Grognard
RPGnet Member
Validated User
But don’t forget, you’re talking about forcing the same decision on everyone else whether they want it or not. This is why Seele’s plan sucks.
 

Manitou

Emperor of the Americas
Validated User
So, this might be discussed in a different thread that skipped, but I didn't want to spoil stuff.

Does Misato try to have sex with Shinji?
Just curious on poeple's opinions?
 

Shadowjack

Cartoon Poet
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Personally, I don't think Misato even knows for sure what she was trying to do. She was pretty far down the sanity spiral herself at that point. But the confusion between/conflation of sex and love and different kinds of love, and the theme of harmful intimate contact, both run deep throughout the show, which tends me toward "yes, sort of".

That first time? On the bed, when Shinji won't even let her hold hands? I think, consciously, Misato was saying to herself "I'm just hugging him"… but if he hadn't resisted, yeah, she might've wound up trying to push further, in a muddled, self-loathing way. (Or pushed half way and then run away.) She's depressed and lonely; he's depressed and lonely; the only vaguely successful relationship she's ever had with a man was sexual; she believes she's a terrible abusive person and subconsciously seeks to prove and disprove that at the same time; she's grasping desperately at stereotypes of masculinity to try to motivate Shinji (fucking a woman = adulthood = manly responsibility); Misato and Shinji share some similarities of personality, and Shinji will later use another critically depressed child (Asuka) as a sexual target; Misato and Rei share some similarities of background, and we've been wondering since early on if Rei has been molested by her opposite-sex parental figure (and will later see him do so, down in Terminal Dogma). There's also (this was pointed out to me, and now I can't unsee it) the shot framing; look at the phallic placement of the chair in the background when Misato sits down by him. Yeah, there's a definite sexual component to the entire encounter. Misato would deny it, even to herself, but she's at least subconsciously aware. And hates herself for it. And is doing it anyway.

The second time, the kiss before death when she promises "to do the rest later"… well, it is what she said, that's explicit, but I think what she actually meant was those words that everyone avoids saying throughout the entire series: "I love you." Particularly because, at that moment, she knows it's a hollow promise she'll never have to keep; she does just as Kaji did to her, shying away from it even in his death message, dancing around the subject. I figure that's what gets Shinji crying at last in the elevator, that he saw through her facade at last and realized what she actually meant, and that he'd never get a chance to return the words. Yes, it's insane that in the heat of the moment Misato found it psychologically easier to portray herself to him as a slut or abuser than as a mother or big sister, but there it is.
 

Peter Svensson

Reads Too Many Comics
Validated User
I think Misato doesn't have healthy coping mechanisms, and uses sensuality and sex as her means of dealing with what she can't handle. Likewise, she assumes everyone else has the same sort of drives as her, such as why she's always done the "flirting" with Shinji because she thinks it's an effective way to motivate him.

I believe that she wouldn't have actually engaged in the sex act, but would have gotten TOO DAMN CLOSE before realizing her mistake.
 

Sankarah

Not Quite a Grognard
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Personally, I don't think Misato even knows for sure what she was trying to do. She was pretty far down the sanity spiral herself at that point. But the confusion between/conflation of sex and love and different kinds of love, and the theme of harmful intimate contact, both run deep throughout the show, which tends me toward "yes, sort of".

That first time? On the bed, when Shinji won't even let her hold hands? I think, consciously, Misato was saying to herself "I'm just hugging him"… but if he hadn't resisted, yeah, she might've wound up trying to push further, in a muddled, self-loathing way. (Or pushed half way and then run away.) She's depressed and lonely; he's depressed and lonely; the only vaguely successful relationship she's ever had with a man was sexual; she believes she's a terrible abusive person and subconsciously seeks to prove and disprove that at the same time; she's grasping desperately at stereotypes of masculinity to try to motivate Shinji (fucking a woman = adulthood = manly responsibility); Misato and Shinji share some similarities of personality, and Shinji will later use another critically depressed child (Asuka) as a sexual target; Misato and Rei share some similarities of background, and we've been wondering since early on if Rei has been molested by her opposite-sex parental figure (and will later see him do so, down in Terminal Dogma). There's also (this was pointed out to me, and now I can't unsee it) the shot framing; look at the phallic placement of the chair in the background when Misato sits down by him. Yeah, there's a definite sexual component to the entire encounter. Misato would deny it, even to herself, but she's at least subconsciously aware. And hates herself for it. And is doing it anyway.

The second time, the kiss before death when she promises "to do the rest later"… well, it is what she said, that's explicit, but I think what she actually meant was those words that everyone avoids saying throughout the entire series: "I love you." Particularly because, at that moment, she knows it's a hollow promise she'll never have to keep; she does just as Kaji did to her, shying away from it even in his death message, dancing around the subject. I figure that's what gets Shinji crying at last in the elevator, that he saw through her facade at last and realized what she actually meant, and that he'd never get a chance to return the words. Yes, it's insane that in the heat of the moment Misato found it psychologically easier to portray herself to him as a slut or abuser than as a mother or big sister, but there it is.
100% spot on IMO. The only thing I’d add is that Misato’s self-image is one of the show’s biggest ironies: she thinks of herself as a slut, and presents herself as such to the world, even though she’s only ever been with one guy. As you say, she doesn’t know of any other way to interact with the men in her life.

I think Misato doesn't have healthy coping mechanisms, and uses sensuality and sex as her means of dealing with what she can't handle. Likewise, she assumes everyone else has the same sort of drives as her, such as why she's always done the "flirting" with Shinji because she thinks it's an effective way to motivate him.

I believe that she wouldn't have actually engaged in the sex act, but would have gotten TOO DAMN CLOSE before realizing her mistake.
Also accurate IMO.
 

Shadowjack

Cartoon Poet
RPGnet Member
Validated User
I believe that she wouldn't have actually engaged in the sex act, but would have gotten TOO DAMN CLOSE before realizing her mistake.
Yes. And then thereafter would steadfastly avoid Shinji to prevent it from happening again, leading him to wonder if he did something wrong because now Misato won't even look at him, so he turtles even more and TALK TO EACH OTHER HONESTLY WHY WON'T YOU PEOPLE JUST TALK TO EACH OTHER (as if I'm really the person to criticize on that point…) 😅
 

pesterfield

Registered User
Validated User
However, it happens at the cost of any sense of self - "You" do not get to know and be accepted by those "you" love, because there is no longer any "you". There is also no "them" either.
Despite all the Christian imagery is the end state supposed to be Nirvana?
 

Peter Svensson

Reads Too Many Comics
Validated User
The trick is that the Christian imagery is almost entirely just superficial. It's there because it looks exotic and strange to Japanese audiences. At least one Gainax staffer has said that if they'd known the show would have been a hit overseas, they wouldn't have included the Christian imagery. (That being said, I wonder if the show would have been as successful had they just been generic aliens.)
 

Count_Zero

Game Master
Validated User
Despite all the Christian imagery is the end state supposed to be Nirvana?
Well, Kaballic imagery - and I'm not familiar enough with Buddhism to say if it's Nirvana. I'd say not really, because you're not going through the stages of enlightenment first - you're getting dragged through at gunpoint. From my cursory reading of Wikipedia, the comparison is made for achieving enlightenment to what happens when a flame runs out of fuel - that's a very different from describing it as "what happens when a flame is doused with a bucket of water."
 
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