Netflix's The Umbrella Academy

Sigrid Hex

Social Justice Valkyrie
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Okay, skimming around through this thread and others, I guess I need to recheck a couple of assumptions:

1. In episode 10 wasn't it implied that...
Spoiler: Show
Hargreeves was the one who somehow caused the 43 to be born in the first place? I mean, isn't that what those strange lights we see him releasing in the past were about? Were there 43 of them?)
Spoiler: Show
Was that what that scene was? I interpreted it as Hargreeves being from the future and narrowly escaping the end of the world (I thought they were missiles launching). I figured that's was what his wife (or whomever) meant by saying he shouldn't stay and die with her. It would also explain how he knows about the apocalypse, except that the apocalypse he is trying to stop is a different one from the one 5 sees.
 

SetentaeBolg

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I understand sympathising with Vanya, but I don't understand saying that she's in the right.

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She killed a lot of nannies growing up, and Hargreeves knew her power was sufficient to destroy the world and also believed (based on his notes) that it could *not* be controlled. From his perspective, robbing her of her powers and her memories was a very humane way of dealing with the problem. Far more efficient would have been simply killing her.

But I think from what we see of Hargreeves, he's barely human in his emotional reaction to people and extremely cold, but still, well-intentioned and ultimately a good person. He was raising these kids to (at least in part) save the world, doing what he had to do. He killed *himself* so that they would be brought together in time to prevent the apocalypse. Which suggests he may have known something of its nature - but he still didn't simply kill Vanya, which would have been easy to do before she had knowledge of and access to her abilities. Why?

Is he actually so humane that he just didn't want to kill her, even to save the world? Possibly, she was his pseudo daughter and I believe he has some kind of love for his students. But I think it's more likely she may have been needed for something else, further down the line. Or alternatively, he knew the apocalypse was imminent but didn't know Vanya's part in it. Or some combination. Or the writers didn't think it worth bothering about having an idea for yet.
 
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Breogan

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While I got the impression Vanya wasnt deliberately killing anybody, just her repulsion to podridge amplified, the lack of consecuences is a bit telling, yes.

The core problem with Hargreeves program is his inability to actually have meaningful connections with the kids, his role as strict and emotionally distant father. Because yes, the most humane way to treat Vanya as an uncontrollable source of destruction was his plan. And you can see in his face that he is having some regrets at having to put a small kid in an isolation chamber. But he never to actually realize that yes, good, you need to keep her in check, great, you brainwashed her into being "ordinary".

Show her some fucking love, you twat. Ensure she is a happy ordinary girl, not take every single opportunity you can to put a mental block of feeling worthless on top of your conspiracy to make her harmless.

But he cant, and he didnt with any of them. Not surprising as he is to be that kind of Dad, is his role in the story and the whole reason everybody else is how they are. He insist on his pupils achieving their greatness or in Vanya case, ensuring she doesnt, and the only way he thinks that is possible is with pain, effort, and constant feeling of needing to proof themselves, and never with an ounce of actual love. He may be proud of them, he may even love them in way, but he thinks is absolutely vital they live loveless lives of struggle to shine.

And he got the exact opposite, of course.
 

Qwa'ha Xahn

High King of the Known Worlds
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Two moments I love are when (I think Vanya?) wonders how much
Spoiler: Show
of Mom is really Hargreeves, and the look on Hargreeves’ face when Vanya is playing the violin (a violin we know meant a great deal to him).
I think Breogan’s got it absolutely right- Hargreeves loves his kids: he’s just absolute and total shit at being a parent.
 
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Coyote's Own

RPG.net's friendly neighborhood Nuwisha.
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He was raising these kids to (at least in part) save the world, doing what he had to do. He killed *himself* so that they would be brought together in time to prevent the apocalypse.
"In closing, I'd like to point out that I never desired to break the children. I merely sought to foster their potential -which was unfortunately never that cast"
Sir Reginald Hergreeves, during his acceptance speech at the National Thallium Awards (it the closing quote of Issue #2).

I found it was a great summation of Hergreeves through possibly comic Hergreeves a bit more then series Hergreeves.
 

Rikimaru

Ninja Comedian
Validated User
Okay, skimming around through this thread and others, I guess I need to recheck a couple of assumptions:

1. In episode 10 wasn't it implied that...
Spoiler: Show
Hargreeves was the one who somehow caused the 43 to be born in the first place? I mean, isn't that what those strange lights we see him releasing in the past were about? Were there 43 of them?)
Well, based on an early scene in the comics, I’d say this scene was showing us...

Spoiler: Show
the evacuation of Hargreeves’ home planet before he took his own ship to Earth. Neither the show or the comic explain if Hargreeves or his people had anything to do with the 43 kids, but the tone of the initial scenes of the comics makes it seem like he wasn’t expecting these kids and just reacted to their birth if you ask me.
 

Atlictoatl

Looking for Operations/Culture employment
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There have already been major spoilers dumped without spoiler blocks in this thread. I assumed it was a spoiler thread.
The page before your post is entirely within spoiler blocks. They're present throughout the thread. Nobody else revealed one of the core mysteries of the show.
 

SetentaeBolg

Registered User
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The page before your post is entirely within spoiler blocks. They're present throughout the thread. Nobody else revealed one of the core mysteries of the show.
I'm sorry if you're annoyed, but there have clearly been posts in this thread where spoilers from the show have been discussed without spoiler blocks. Whether they were on this page or not seems immaterial to me. It seems a bit odd to pick mine out for condemnation when I was following what had been previously established. As for "core mysteries of the show", we have already had several of those revealed outside spoiler blocks in this thread (along with a great many spoilers for the comics) - we are discussing the show and its contents here.

ETA: In any case, given you are annoyed by it, I've hidden the relevant section behind a spoiler block.
 
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