Next-Gen Graphic APIs: DX12, Vulkan, and Metal

Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
How am I beating Quasar to this? :p

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-reveals-directx-12-for-pc-xbox-one-and-mobile
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx

Long story short, Microsoft is letting developers get closer to the metal with DX12 (DXII?). As I remember, that's how it was during the Windows 95-Me days, but changed when XP took over. Why? I seem to recall stability for drivers being an issue, plus NT wanting distance between the hardware and OS. Well, XP is mostly behind us, driver models have changed once again, and it looks like Mantle now has a competitor that can run with Nvidia and AMD (my money is on DX).

Seems like its going to be an overall boost to efficiency as well, so folks with multi-core computers will see their resources better used. This could be an "upgrade via driver" if everything goes as promised, and games support it.

Q: Should I wait to buy a new PC or GPU?
A: No – if you buy a PC with supported graphics hardware (over 80% of gamer PCs currently being sold), you’ll be able to enjoy all the power of DirectX 12 games as soon as they are available.

Q: Does DirectX 12 include anything besides Direct3D 12?
A: Also new is a set of cutting-edge graphics tools for developers. Since this is a preview of DirectX 12 focused on Direct3D 12, other technologies may be previewed at a later date.

Q: When will I be able to get my hands on DirectX 12?
A: We are targeting Holiday 2015 games.

Q: What hardware will support Direct3D 12 / will my existing hardware support Direct3D 12?
A: We will link to our hardware partners’ websites as they announce their hardware support for Direct3D 12.
I don't know if it'll require new hardware or not, but I expect GPU makers to use this as a way to get folks to upgrade from what they've got to something newer. For instance, I'd be thrilled if my 2009 Radeon 5750 could support this, but I wouldn't be surprised if AMD uses this as a chance to force obsolescence on me by not supporting it. But, hey, if it helps games use my aging Q6600 quad-core CPU better? AWESOME!

edit: Hopefully the powers that be at AMD will make sure all their APUs support this, not just the newer ones. Happy people are repeat customers.
 
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Quasar

Feeling kinda smurfy
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

Looks like it is exactly what I expected. Mantel like apis taken from xbox and brought to pc. Good news for Windows gamers.

the whole Forza as tech demo but not game though annoys me. just reinforces my feelings about MS not changing in terms of their interest in pc gaming.
 

Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

I suspect its a continued internal feud. That guy they got from Valve left, so its clearly going nowhere. MS needs to get at least its older console games on PC, IMO. Could be the PC gaming folks at MS simply don't have the internal leadership to really push anything, which would be sad. Or, the console folks have significantly more power than they do. Certainly, Windows 8/Modern needs those games... bet Panzer Dragoon Orta would be interesting :)

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/
In addition, NVIDIA will match Microsoft OS support for DX12. Over 70% of gaming PCs are now DX11 based. NVIDIA will support the DX12 API on all the DX11-class GPUs it has shipped; these belong to the Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell architectural families. With more than 50% market share (65% for discrete graphics) among DX11-based gaming systems, NVIDIA alone will provide game developers the majority of the potential installed base.
I can't keep up with code names, but that sounds good to me.
 

Imban

Registered User
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

I can't keep up with code names, but that sounds good to me.
In practical terms, that's every GeForce 4XX and 4XXM except 405, every 5XX and 5XXM, every 6XX and 6XXM, every 7XX and 7XXM, and every 8XXM, or basically any GeForce card made since September 2010.
 

Quasar

Feeling kinda smurfy
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

I suspect its a continued internal feud. That guy they got from Valve left, so its clearly going nowhere. MS needs to get at least its older console games on PC, IMO. Could be the PC gaming folks at MS simply don't have the internal leadership to really push anything, which would be sad.
I expect its simply the continued view that XBox makes more money due to XBL, and that exclusive titles bolsters console sales.

But yeah...hiring Jason Holtman again looked like it might have meant a change in terms of their interest in PC gaming. But he left as part of the whole reorg.
 

Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

Or at least directly pays for itself. Ah well...

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/03/microsoft-touts-performance-improvements-for-existing-hardware-in-directx-12/
While previous versions of DirectX have often required new graphics hardware built specifically with the new APIs in mind, Microsoft suggested that a large portion of existing hardware would be able to support DirectX 12 and see immediate benefits from its roll out. That includes 80 percent of the new gamer PCs selling today, according to Gosalia's estimates, and 50 percent of all PCs that will be "out there" by the time DirectX 12 ships. Every Xbox One will be capable of running DirectX 12 games as well, he said, as well as many Windows Mobile phones.

Specifically, AMD "Graphics Core Next" GPUs, broadly HD 7000 and up, and NVIDIA Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell GPUs (which is to say, all of the company's DirectX 11 parts) will all support DirectX 12.

"People who have our current CPUs, they get the benefit of this API on day one," AMD's Raja Khodury said on stage. "And it's not a small benefit. It's... like getting four generations of hardware ahead with this API."

Nvidia's Tomasi echoed a similar sentiment, saying that all of its cards that currently support DirectX 11 will have DirectX 12 support from day one. Those high-end Nvidia cards alone represent what Tomasi estimated was about 40 percent of the current universe of gaming GPUs, based on Steam statistics. Those existing cards will see orders of magnitude improvements from DirectX 12's release, he said, "going from 100s of thousands to millions and maybe tens of millions of system draws a second."

On the mobile side, Qualcomm Engineering VP Eric Demers said that features like reduced CPU overhead and the resultant lower energy draw in DirectX 12 are "music to my ears from a power standpoint." DirectX 12 could also make it easier to see Xbox and PC titles transition to mobile forms, but he warned that "we'll see how that experience goes."
Sounds good all around. I'm pretty excited. I wonder if the CPU benefits have to be supported directly or not? Or if they did it like the multi-core revamp from Vista to 7, where nothing needed to be done as far as developers are concerned?

During a Q&A, Gosalia pointedly dodged a question about whether Microsoft would be offering DirectX 12 support on Windows 7. "We understand your desire to get DirectX 12 on the broadest set of hardware," he said. "We won't be announcing anything today, but stay tuned."
I wouldn't be surprised if they used this as a carrot to get folks to upgrade to Windows 8 and higher instead of including Windows 7. I don't expect Vista to get this (and, really, when that EOL's, I'm sure there'll be parties). This *seems* like its a much more significant upgrade than DX10 was. I hope they do include 7, though. I really, really, do.
 

Rainbow Trenchcoat

Social Justice Cleric
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

So, my Radeon 6850 is going to be *just* out of range for this and it probably won't be available for windows 7? Unenthused.
 

Thanaeon

Mostly simulationist
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

I wouldn't be surprised if they used this as a carrot to get folks to upgrade to Windows 8 and higher instead of including Windows 7. I don't expect Vista to get this (and, really, when that EOL's, I'm sure there'll be parties). This *seems* like its a much more significant upgrade than DX10 was. I hope they do include 7, though. I really, really, do.
Neither would I.

In which case, fuck you, Microsoft. Fuck you very much. Because there's simply no fucking way I'm going to be installing that clusterfuck of an OS.
 

Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

Neither would I.

In which case, fuck you, Microsoft. Fuck you very much. Because there's simply no fucking way I'm going to be installing that clusterfuck of an OS.
Have you been tracking 8.1 and 8.1.1? While I disagree its a clusterfuck (Vista and ME would fit that bill, IMO, and only because they didn't release Longhorn), its been changing. Compatibility is great, and you can boot straight to desktop. This next update (8.1.1) looks like its going to lower system overhead even more. There are also Start Menu replacements if you want, some even being free. I think it works well with keyboard and mouse as well. YMMV and all that.
 

Chikahiro

Neo•Geo Fanboy
Validated User
Re: DX12 formally announced!

So, my Radeon 6850 is going to be *just* out of range for this and it probably won't be available for windows 7? Unenthused.
I'd thank AMD for that.

We'll see. Maybe they're deciding, maybe they'll do something weird like "Only 64bit versions of Windows." I dunno :/
 
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