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[Nobilis 3e] Some Help With Estate Properties?

amechra

Registered User
Validated User
I've had this idea for a while that one of the (failed) counter-offences in the Valde Bellum was an attempt by Heaven to define the Lands Beyond Creation in terms of an Estate. The end result (Emptiness) is unhealthy for the Nobles that hold it, tending to do things like empty out your heart (which Lord Entropy loves).

The Estate Properties I've come up with are...

• Emptiness wishes to be filled [2].
• Emptiness is jealous [1].
• Emptiness does not care [2].
• Emptiness is what remains [2].

...but I'm not sure they're good ones.

=---=

I also had an Deceiver, Alaia Bakarne, who my players (back when I had a Nobilis game) never got a chance to meet. Her p-Estate was The Sweetness Of Alaia Bakarne, and she's the Excrucian equivalent of one of those super-passionate ray-of-sunshine social workers (who wants to destroy Creation because it's mean). The Properties for her p-Estate would be something like:

The Sweetness of Alaia Bakarne...
...is as it appears. [2]
...speaks to the heart. [1]
...invites intimacy. [1]
...is entirely wholesome. [1]
...is just so darn huggable! [2]

I'm... unsure if these are good Properties for an Excrucian, though.
 

WyldCard4

Registered User
Validated User
The Nobilis Wiki has an example Power of Emptiness.

http://nobilis.me/noble:qliphoth-jones

For Qilphoth Jones, Emptiness:

• (3) Can be filled.
• (2) Is without form, substance, and qualities.
• (2) Is a gap that weakens the structure or meaning of the world.

I think, looking at your properties and Jones, I'd go with:

• (3) Tries to be filled.
• (2) Is without form, substance, and qualities.
• (2) Weakens the world.
• (2) Does not know it cares

I think "tries to be filled" conveys the element of jealousy you suggest while it causes Enchantments of Emptiness to cause things. Being without form, substance or qualities seems vitally important to being an Emptiness while weakening the world is a nice touch to help show how this is a failed attack.

I changed "does not care" to "does not know it cares" to bridge the gap between Emptiness being able to do things and the way Emptiness feels aloof and impassive. I feel this allows for most of the cool things someone could do with your initial property, but is more evocative.
 

Snoof

Time-Travelling Layabout
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Regarding Emptiness, Nobilis.me has the properties of Emptiness as:

  • Emptiness can be filled.
  • Emptiness is without form, substance, and qualities.
  • Emptiness is a gap that weakens the structure or meaning of the world.
They're a bit passive for my tastes (although that's pretty appropriate for Emptiness!) but it's fairly clear what Enchantments of Emptiness would do to something. I do think your list might need to feel a bit "bigger" - if Emptiness is an attempt to encapsulate the Lands Beyond Creation, then it should be cosmic in scope and include stuff like the voids between worlds and the profound meaninglessness of existence.

I do like "Emptiness is what remains", though. It's an amazing property to Emulate to avoid pretty much anything which might unmake or destroy you.

Also, I see WyldCard4 got in first re: Nobilis.me.
 

amechra

Registered User
Validated User
I think the difference between Jones and my take on Emptiness is a distinction between natural Emptiness and unnatural Emptiness. It's a bit hazy, but my version is a bit more... petty and alive, I guess?

I kind of disagree with "Emptiness does not know it cares" - it feels... convoluted? I guess that's the right way to think about it. I do agree about the need for some more "cosmic" stuff.

So how does this list of properties look?

• Emptiness wishes to be filled.
• Emptiness cannot be grasped.
• Emptiness abhors the world.
• Emptiness has nothing you didn't bring.
• Emptiness is what remains.
 

cadaeic

Excrucian Apologist
Validated User
Here's an alternate idea for your Deceiver that may fit into the whole social worker schtick!

Those who Alaia Bakarne Care For...
... find themselves desiring the kindness of Alaia Bakarne
... willingly give their agency up to Alaia Bakarne, as she knows best
... are filled all the way up with sweetness and joy!
... love hugs and intimacy
... love opening themselves up (metaphorically!)

"The Sweetness of Alaia Bakarne" would basically infect other people with her sweetness and innocence, while "Those Who Alaia Bakarne Care For" has Alaia bringing people under her care as a social worker and make decisions for them. So it depends on what your goals are with her! I highly recommend the Deceiver minibook, though.

As for Emptiness, those look like a solid list of properties. Why does Emptiness abhor the world, though? Maybe "is inimical to the world" or "cannot help but to reject the world"?
 

amechra

Registered User
Validated User
It abhors the world because why else would it keep sending Excrucians? ;) Remember, this was a failed attempt by Heaven to define The Lands Beyond Creation as part of Creation - since that's nonsensical, they simply had Emptiness in their web instead.

And I like those suggestions on the Estate Properties for Alaia - I actually do own the Deceiver minibook, but I haven't done much more than flip through it. I'll take another look!
 

Baffle Mint

Eastern Bloc Robot Cowboy
Validated User
So, to make things more complicated, I think there's a prior question that is going to influence your properties:

When the Imperators tried to build an Estate of Emptiness, was is built descriptively, as an attempt by the Imperators to accurately describe the Lands Beyond Creation, or was it built prescriptively, as an attempt to force the Lands Beyond to be subordinate to Creation?

I'm particularly stuck on the property "Emptiness wishes to be filled" because, while that is a pretty solid property for, say, the Estate of Vacuums, I think the Valde Bellum shows pretty conclusively that Emptiness does NOT wish to be filled.

Let me try...

Emptiness (Descriptive)
...Is imperceptible and unknowable
...Is too vast ever to fill
...Is Beyond Joy and Sorrow
...Casts down the Sun and Stars and Everything
...Is what it all amounts to, in the end
...Is a relief

Emptiness (Prescriptive)
...Longs to be filled
...Defines the borders of things
...Separates things
...Gives meaning to substance
...Disappears when described
 
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